New Ammunition & Method for Obtainment

[Karbuncle]

Standard delay for Shuriken is 192. With the extra ranged delay added in, that's about 2.6 seconds. Pamun +1 has 125D with ~2s delay (After assuming 50% DW). With capped haste it's 0.8s.

In order for a single Shuriken to outdo an unbuffed Ninja's Pamun+1 it needs to have 163D or so. A capped haste Ninja (not too rare) would require a 407D shuriken. I'm too lazy to consider fSTR2 and higher ranged ratio but it's not like a Ninja will get anywhere near capping either of those anyway.

Sange is worth considering since it'll let you lob 5 at once or whatever, if they want us to only use Shurikens when Sange is available I would ask that we get something like 400+D shurikens when you consider you need to spend 2 seconds just using the dumb JA.

Appreciate putting real numbers on my wild overexhaggerations XD.

But, If i may? Are you considering TP gain in this equation? Dual Wield hits are going to net you about what, 10~11TP or so? Where as Shuriken are going to net you about 5-6, So while with a D:407 Shuriken you'll get the same damage, You get half the TP, making it still, far less useful as it'll impact your WS Frequency, which is generally the biggest issue with Shuriken.

Which is why, in one of my few "Pro Shuriken" Posts, I suggested SE introduce a Job Trait that increases TP Gained by Shuriken by 1 (Up to 5) per trait level, Starting at level 15, maybe even let us merit it up to ~15.

Further, You're also assuming you have 0 Double Attack, Triple Attack, or Quad Attack... The math changes a bit when you get there, Its also assuming your Acc/atk is the same as your R.acc/R.atk, while is almost never the case. D:407 would be a good start, But honestly it'd still be awful once you factor in everything ^ there.

Still appreciate the run-down, Though 400DMG Shuriken is still probably outside the realm of possibility XD

[Kincard]

Still appreciate the run-down, Though 400DMG Shuriken is still probably outside the realm of possibility XD

That's pretty much what I wanted to show. The amount of DMG needed for Shuriken to be remotely useful is absurd. This is on top of the fact that Ninja doesn't have very many good ranged attack armors (There was a time when Ninja Tekko +1 was ridiculously powerful for ranged attacks if you wanted to Gun NIN but these pieces are few and far in between). This is assuming I want to use that inventory space at all. I'm running around with like 78/80 inventory on Ninja and I don't have a single piece of ranged attack gear or even ninjutsu nuking gear. SE doesn't seem to realize that the only reason RNG is powerful is because they can reduce their ranged delay consistently, can multiattack their arrows and have something like +60 accuracy in traits and thus can focus on investing all their gear into improving the higher fSTR2 and Ratio numbers for ranged attacks.

The best NINs can ever hope for is for Sange to be the one time you throw stuff (You'll throw 5 shurikens with the delay of just 1, after all). In order for this to happen I'd estimate it'd requiring Shurikens with at least 300 DMG.