Job Adjustments for the Next Version Update

[Glamdring]

...or don't want to do them..., That said, the main reason tanking died was more that tanks couldn't even hope to try and hold hate in a zerg situation. If they could, which SEis slowly working them back towards, that would only make zerging even better.

Didn't quote the part about soloing, I still hold to my opinion pup was meant as a soloer, I just think they did a piss-poor job on the roll out. The fact that some people could solo despite that is really more a testament to their ability in the face of massive design/implementation flaws-face it pup was rolled out with the the auto meant to deal the damage and the player tanking, in essentially mage gear. That's not my idea of fun and why I didn't pick up the job until Aby.

As to the "official" strategy thing, I left the relevant part. See, there's my beef, it's not that it doesn't work, it's that people don't WANT to do the alt tactics. Yes, they are probably slower, BUT they allow players to play on the jobs they prefer (for the most part) instead of being forced into jobs they don't like because strategy "x" requires that build. That is why jobs die. I've seen you over in the rdm discussions so I'm positive you know what I'm talking about. Lest we forget, the primary reason for playing a GAME is to have fun, if you aren't enjoying the job you are pigeonholed into the fun part is lost, so you are left with a secondary reason to play, i.e. I do like to help my friends which is why I still roll out my brd or thf as needed even though I prefer my other jobs.

The tank thing, I know they are FINALLY working on it, but waiting this long was a MASSIVE screw-up. Pld is essentially dead now due to YEARS of this issue. It was designed essentially as a single-purpose job-to take hits so the rest of us don't have to-but even in its heyday holding hate wasn't an absolute, the players around it had to play smart, and yes, that meant holding back at times until the pld (with or without a cooperative thf) could reestablish their place at the top of the hate list. Even moreso for nin which didn't have inate hate building tools the way pld and war do. Rune is even worse, we have Flash... and? We're going to be dependent on our DD output-GS doesn't suck, but that means we have to haste almost exclusively in our gear builds and with the choices out there that means our weak physical def is going to suffer since the haste gear for the most part is on bad defensive pieces. And the other prob is that all the melee DD are also hasted out the wazoo so we still will lag on damage-generated enmity. They are going to need to beef our enmity from JA, probably the runes and wards if they are serious about us ever tanking. Still, the fact they are TRYING to bring back legitimate tanks will be a help and well received by our nuking and ranger friends that have been absent from the DD table for too long...

I still think a thf is going to be mandatory now for hate control instead of just for building TH IF they can manage to revive tanking at all, looking at the new weaps numbers I have doubts about tanks being able to try to hold hate in the face of that kind of Zerg, or nukes being able to keep up for that matter. Too bad, blm was a fun job...

[Aezelas]

Still, the fact they are TRYING to bring back legitimate tanks will be a help and well received by our nuking and ranger friends that have been absent from the DD table for too long...

I still think a thf is going to be mandatory now for hate control instead of just for building TH IF they can manage to revive tanking at all, looking at the new weaps numbers I have doubts about tanks being able to try to hold hate in the face of that kind of Zerg, or nukes being able to keep up for that matter. Too bad, blm was a fun job...

And then, they set a time limit on delve nms and we're going zergfest.
SE is going back and forth, and i'm not sure about what we can expect.
PLD still shines in Naakuals fights though.

[Glamdring]

And then, they set a time limit on delve nms and we're going zergfest.
SE is going back and forth, and i'm not sure about what we can expect.
PLD still shines in Naakuals fights though.

tell me about it. Honestly, what's wrong with being able to bring a nuke? I got alot of BLM buddies, they would like to be part of end-game as well. most of them didn't whine about having to lay off the big nukes until the mobs HP had been whittled down due to their squishyness. The few that were dropping AM from the opening a. aren't my buds, but b. I taught them to care about hate by TE>>DE on the blms that did it (they wanted hate, they got hate). And I liked the days when rng was interchangeable with a blm, even though I had neither job at the time. It was just fun watching them work, and they actually enjoyed working.

so SE doesn't want everything to be arrow/mana-burned? fine, the bosses should be immune to sleep/gravity/bind AND make it take more than 6 meteors to take them down, and strong enough to 1-shot a blm or rng. That means a balanced party, most likely with a tank.

[Chimerawizard]

@Glamdring

I knew a THF that would always try to do that to me @75. I laughed when on SMN because I would still never pull hate.
On BLM ... He just made sure I would not lose hate as long as I was alive. We joked about it in vent all the time trying to MPK each other. He gets charmed...kaboom, I do a MB and find out the closing WS was done with TA on me.
I manage to stay alive for more than a minute while tanking on BLM...get ready for Spikeflail . Well unless its Tiamat, then I just go afk while I wait to be finished getting eaten. (don't wanna piss off the rest of the group)