Job Adjustments for the Next Version Update

[Thorbean]

The MP cost/Damage of spells is a complete mess. Why standardise the damage/cast time/recast, then split the MP costs so drastically between elements?

Surely if you are making the damage more equal, the cost should be more equal too. Otherwise whats the point in using thunder V (10%ish more damage than stone V) at the cost of 300 MP (100% higher MP cost than stone V).

I'm not against the more standardised damage/cast time/recast, I'd like the MP costs to follow roughly the same scale though.

[Alhanelem]

The MP cost/Damage of spells is a complete mess. Why standardise the damage/cast time/recast, then split the MP costs so drastically between elements?

Surely if you are making the damage more equal, the cost should be more equal too. Otherwise whats the point in using thunder V (10%ish more damage than stone V) at the cost of 300 MP (100% higher MP cost than stone V).

I'm not against the more standardised damage/cast time/recast, I'd like the MP costs to follow roughly the same scale though.

You have to consider power over time. If thunder V is more damage efficient, the MP cost is turned up higher to compensate, so that you only use the highest damage output when you need a sudden burst- otherwise due to the MP cost, it will be more efficient to use a lesser spell.

[RAIST]

You have to consider power over time. If thunder V is more damage efficient, the MP cost is turned up higher to compensate, so that you only use the highest damage output when you need a sudden burst- otherwise due to the MP cost, it will be more efficient to use a lesser spell.

I see what you are saying, and at first glance I was inclined to agree....but the numbers seem to be telling a slightly different story.

Old values:
Stone V: 626-855 damage for 222MP (2.82 - 3.85 damage per mp point)
Thunder V: 874-1103 damage for 294MP (2.97 - 3.75 damage per mp point)

New Values
Stone V: 650-1200 damage for 156MP (4.17 - 7.69 damage per mp point)
Thunder V: 900-1300 damage for 306MP (2.94 - 4.24 damage per mp point)

They were actually fairly balanced before. You spent pretty close to the same ratio for doing a set amount of damage. For instance (and bear in mind these are base values and not taking MAB and such into account, we're comparing the raw numbers used early in the formula, and only adjusted by INT):

breaking 3000 base damage via each spell:

Old values:
Stone V: 4 or 5 casts (3420 - 3130) for 888 - 1110 MP
Thunder V: 3 or 4 casts (3309 - 3496) for 882 - 1176 MP

New values:
Stone V: 3 to 5 casts (3600 - 3250) for 468 - 780MP
Thunder V: 3 or 4 casts (3900 - 3600) for 918 - 1224

With this adjustment, it is skewed so you are spending considerably less MP in comparison for Stone V, and a bit more MP for Thunder V to surpass the same benchmark for base damage. Before, you were spending roughly the same amount of MP for the same output.

Bear in mind also that you are potentially casting the same number of times as well, so it's not really making a massive improvement for efficiency (unless you are staying on the high side of INT, and that is really only an advantage weighted towards Stone, and in a BIG way). Granted, if you were to expand this out for really long fights requiring you to do much larger amounts of base damage over time it may have a more profound impact, but even then it may only be a couple casts.

As for the "sudden burst of damage" angle.... look at the high end comparison of those two spells:

Stone V: 1200 for 156 MP
Thunder V: 1300 for 306 MP

Barring resists due to elemental affinity and what not, they are really out of whack there for the damage/cost ratio---and generating very close to the same damage output.

So depending on just where your dINT is falling....this is potentially really out of whack.

[Fynlar]

To people that are pessimistic about potential pet changes (and honestly, I can understand that):

Have you taken a look at the Alternator yet?

If this thing is a sign of boosts other pets will get (presumably with Delve weaponry, but still), I'm honestly not too concerned.

[Hawklaser]

Willing to wait and see on the spell adjustments, as while the stone line does become more efficient, it also takes a fairly large amount of Int to make it get up to around where Thunder performs. So unless out side of abyssea RDM, BLM, and SCHs are consistently able to get +100 int over their target I don't quite see this becoming a huge issue yet.

[HimuraKenshyn]

To people that are pessimistic about potential pet changes (and honestly, I can understand that):

Have you taken a look at the Alternator yet?

If this thing is a sign of boosts other pets will get (presumably with Delve weaponry, but still), I'm honestly not too concerned.

Shussh still not sure if they didn't make another typo like they did with butts............ I thought 10 tp a tick was a dream and sadly they made it that way....

[Louispv]

To people that are pessimistic about potential pet changes (and honestly, I can understand that):

Have you taken a look at the Alternator yet?

If this thing is a sign of boosts other pets will get (presumably with Delve weaponry, but still), I'm honestly not too concerned.

Yes, but that means any PUP that doesn't have an alternator is broken and worthless until they get one. Their job does not function. No matter what you do, your puppet cannot hit delve enemies even with 3 thunder maneuvers and accuracy attachments. But then you get an alternator, your puppet get 45 more accuracy and it works again. But you can't even play the job, because it cannot do what it was designed to, until you get an item. There's no way for you to, for instance, get an alternator, AS a PUP that needs the alternator.

On the other hand, a WAR, or a SAM that hasn't got a Delve item yet is still fully capable of doing delve. You cannot fix a job with items, unless you're given those items for unlocking the job.

Also, what happens when they add the next tier of delve they promised? Will there be a new animator with all stats+150? Will that be enough to keep up with other players who will have new 350 damage weapons? Because STR+ 70 and Weapon Damage+70 sure aren't the same thing. And if it's not, we're screwed, because SE never goes back and changes things until they are pointless, unless we stop them from implementing it in the first place.

Fix the jobs, don't make players of those jobs put in extra effort to get extra items other jobs don't need, just to keep up. (or worse, still be behind)