Job Adjustments for the Next Version Update

[detlef]

Still, can't say I wouldn't like to see it be reduced to 10 minutes or less. I've done a lot of stupid and reckless things right after using call wyvern. Plus it sucks that you can lose it after getting charmed.

[Alhanelem]

I'd like to follow up a bit about the planned wyvern enhancements for dragoon.

To give a simpler idea of what we have planned, by equipping a high content level weapon, we are envisioning that the stats of your wyvern also increase along with you. It's somewhat close to what a player mentioned about making it so your wyverns damage value, delay, attack, and defense increase based on your own values.

Currently there are pieces of equipment that have pet enhancing stats and by equipping them they influence your pet's strength (for example, there are already polearms in existence that enhance wyverns); however, this is not what we will be doing this time with polearms.

Okay, so this is great, so how about doing this for SMN, PUP and BST too? This would even give high damage staves such as the R/M/E weapons meaning to SMNs who choose not to melee.

Why in the world would this only apply to dragoon?

(edit: I guess other people were thinking exactly what I was thinking! How often does that happen?)

[poodlehat]

I wish there was some kind of jug, maybe not as powerful as a typical one, but that could be used with bst as a sub. It would be maybe level 49 all jobs?

[Luscia]

Here's the thing and yeah maybe it's me being a DRG main, but; the only possible reason I can see this being DRG only vs SMN, BST and PUP is because DRG isn't a traditional pet job. The wyvern doesn't get any options to really do much of anything; it heals every minute when not /mage, it deals breath dmg every minute on command but that dmg really isn't much in the long run and thats it. We as the DRG can up it's survivability via Steady Wing, but there's still a really good shot of it getting taken down quickly and we can heal it by sacrificing some of our own HP to do so and get a little TP in return. BST, SMN and PUP all have more options so to speak; SMNs have different avatars to call upon and depending on the type of mob or power needed you will use a different avatar, same goes for BST; you need power you will use a heavy hitter, you need a tank you will use a pet with high def. PUP's puppet is only slightly different, but again has options in what you need it to do; it can be a nuker, a healer, a ranged attacker or even a tank. But a DRG's wyvern does pretty much nothing, so anything to help it out is a welcome change as it is a part of being a DRG.

[Demon6324236]

On the list of new pets, I want a Mantid, that is all.

[Raksha]

what camate meant was:

"We know that no one is gonna be retarded enough to switch their duplus grip for some crap that still wont make your wyvern worth a shit, so we're not even gonna bother."

[Thorbean]

The MP cost/Damage of spells is a complete mess. Why standardise the damage/cast time/recast, then split the MP costs so drastically between elements?

Surely if you are making the damage more equal, the cost should be more equal too. Otherwise whats the point in using thunder V (10%ish more damage than stone V) at the cost of 300 MP (100% higher MP cost than stone V).

I'm not against the more standardised damage/cast time/recast, I'd like the MP costs to follow roughly the same scale though.

[Alhanelem]

The MP cost/Damage of spells is a complete mess. Why standardise the damage/cast time/recast, then split the MP costs so drastically between elements?

Surely if you are making the damage more equal, the cost should be more equal too. Otherwise whats the point in using thunder V (10%ish more damage than stone V) at the cost of 300 MP (100% higher MP cost than stone V).

I'm not against the more standardised damage/cast time/recast, I'd like the MP costs to follow roughly the same scale though.

You have to consider power over time. If thunder V is more damage efficient, the MP cost is turned up higher to compensate, so that you only use the highest damage output when you need a sudden burst- otherwise due to the MP cost, it will be more efficient to use a lesser spell.

[RAIST]

You have to consider power over time. If thunder V is more damage efficient, the MP cost is turned up higher to compensate, so that you only use the highest damage output when you need a sudden burst- otherwise due to the MP cost, it will be more efficient to use a lesser spell.

I see what you are saying, and at first glance I was inclined to agree....but the numbers seem to be telling a slightly different story.

Old values:
Stone V: 626-855 damage for 222MP (2.82 - 3.85 damage per mp point)
Thunder V: 874-1103 damage for 294MP (2.97 - 3.75 damage per mp point)

New Values
Stone V: 650-1200 damage for 156MP (4.17 - 7.69 damage per mp point)
Thunder V: 900-1300 damage for 306MP (2.94 - 4.24 damage per mp point)

They were actually fairly balanced before. You spent pretty close to the same ratio for doing a set amount of damage. For instance (and bear in mind these are base values and not taking MAB and such into account, we're comparing the raw numbers used early in the formula, and only adjusted by INT):

breaking 3000 base damage via each spell:

Old values:
Stone V: 4 or 5 casts (3420 - 3130) for 888 - 1110 MP
Thunder V: 3 or 4 casts (3309 - 3496) for 882 - 1176 MP

New values:
Stone V: 3 to 5 casts (3600 - 3250) for 468 - 780MP
Thunder V: 3 or 4 casts (3900 - 3600) for 918 - 1224

With this adjustment, it is skewed so you are spending considerably less MP in comparison for Stone V, and a bit more MP for Thunder V to surpass the same benchmark for base damage. Before, you were spending roughly the same amount of MP for the same output.

Bear in mind also that you are potentially casting the same number of times as well, so it's not really making a massive improvement for efficiency (unless you are staying on the high side of INT, and that is really only an advantage weighted towards Stone, and in a BIG way). Granted, if you were to expand this out for really long fights requiring you to do much larger amounts of base damage over time it may have a more profound impact, but even then it may only be a couple casts.

As for the "sudden burst of damage" angle.... look at the high end comparison of those two spells:

Stone V: 1200 for 156 MP
Thunder V: 1300 for 306 MP

Barring resists due to elemental affinity and what not, they are really out of whack there for the damage/cost ratio---and generating very close to the same damage output.

So depending on just where your dINT is falling....this is potentially really out of whack.

[Fynlar]

To people that are pessimistic about potential pet changes (and honestly, I can understand that):

Have you taken a look at the Alternator yet?

If this thing is a sign of boosts other pets will get (presumably with Delve weaponry, but still), I'm honestly not too concerned.