Job Adjustments for the Next Version Update

[Teraniku]

As a SMN, this really sucks. Oh yay! I got me a new grip that enhances avatar Physical attack by +30! SMN is saved! NOT!

-Look if you all would just base avatar attack / Blood pact power on summoning skill and allow us to do Skill break quests (Quests that allow us to raise our skill cap every once in a while so we can keep up with the new gear tiers you keep adding) then I might think you were on to something.

[Zhronne]

To further add on my previous post, it is a bad game-design idea to fix the problems of a certain class through certain specific items for three main basic reasons:

1. You will have to obtain that item (and possibly it could be even hard, and until you do your class will remain "broken")
2. You will limit the freedom of the player which will be "bound" to equip certain items to "fix" their class
3. As game proceeds and stats are raised even further, SE will need to release even better fixing items

This cannot work on the long run.
The problem of pet jobs are different and reach a very different scale for different jobs, but I think they could be generalized in two different issues:


Pet Survivability
You cannot directly heal pets, but are limited by specific abilities that only the master can use and that have certain cooldowns. Also pets do not have their own gear, and "Pet: ..." gear the master can equip is obviously (and rightfully) limited.
This makes survivability of pets particularly hard in certain fights.


Pet scaling
Unlike other classes, the damage of pet classes is split between master and pet.
When another class receives a buff that boosts its ouput, this boost affects the 100% of that class' possible damage output.
When a pet class receives the same buff, only a smaller % of its overall damage is boosted (the master's).
The same happens with gear.
As new gear is released, 100% of another class' damage is boosted, while only a % of a pet job class damage is boosted (the master's), making the gap between master and pet even stronger and making the previous issue even more influent.


Possible Solutions:

Pet Survivability: Cannot make pets too resistant to overall damage, or it could create some annoying situations (especially for BST). They should instead add a job trait that makes so pets receive reduced damage from AoE moves that do hit them, but that didn't directly target them or their master.
The amount of reduction should be balanced, not too minimal, not too strong of course, and could be furtherly enhanced by specific equipment.

Pet Scaling: This probably isn't a big issue for SMN (they have other issues), and it's a minimal factor for DRG, but it is very crucial for BST and PUP. It's also the "norm" in practically almost every other MMO.
This scaling should be balanced as well. Cannot make it too big or you would make "Pet: ..." gear useless.
It has to be a small bonus that scales with some of the master's stats and according to a specific formula, grats specific dynamic bonuses to the pet.
This way "Pet: ..." gear will still be relevant/interesting, but it would be an additional option for specific builds to suit specific situations or player's tastes and styles. It would not be something "required" to fix your class.


If a class has issues and needs a fix, you need to do it through job traits or job abilities, not through specific equipment that forces the player to gather such item and binds them to use it.
Gear should be something to be looking at to make your class stronger or more "special", not something to "fix" your class.

[Zhronne]

And to add to the pet merit category:

That's a very cool idea and I like it a lot, hope they'll think about implementing it! But it still wouldn't solve the Pet Scaling issue, and I doubt it would have a big impact on the Pet Survivability either.

As I mentioned before, I don't think a direct "Pet: damage taken -X%" (wether you get it through gear or merits) is the right solution to go, if anything it's potentially "dangerous" because it might make certain pet jobs too strong (especially BST) and require SE to nerf the class afterwise, and I don't really want a nerf >.>
Damage taken is currently fine imho, altough a few more gear options wouldn't hurt.
The thing they need to address is not the direct damage the pet gets, but the "indirect" damage, i.e. that from AoE that target your tank but end up hitting your pet too and yourself.
You can be healed by the party healer, but your pet has cooldowns to be healed/debuffed, so it's only right they take a certain % of reduced damage from these attacks, if they're not directly targeting the master or the pet.

A wide range of monster abilities are AoE around a certain target, easy to make a job trait for Pets that takes this into account.
Other abilities are instead AoE centered around the monster itself. For these abilities they could make so the Pet receives lower damage if he is below a certain threshold in the enmity list.

[Hawklaser]

That's a very cool idea and I like it a lot, hope they'll think about implementing it! But it still wouldn't solve the Pet Scaling issue, and I doubt it would have a big impact on the Pet Survivability either.

Well as to the scaling issue, I know certain merit categories have had their max amounts of adjustments increased over time, and different categories have different limitations. They can at least go up to 15 improvements to a single merit, as shown by hp/mp merits, they can also break a category into two groups as shown by job merit categories. So unless 15 is as high as a single meritable choice can go, that could take care of a good amount of the scaling.

How I would likely do is would have generic boost portion for a specific jobs pets be a flat increase to pet stats, essentially to get the pet a little below the baseline raw stats for certain content levels, and as content levels go up the amount spendable in this section could go up, or values adjusted if a cap is hit. While the second grouping of merits could be more percent based improvements, with a more strict max per/combo limit on these ones.

Unfortunately, BST and possibly PUP would be the more difficult ones to balance with a system like this. BST mostly because of the all the variability they get with pets currently. PUP would be more due to attachment interactions.

[Zhronne]

Well as to the scaling issue, I know certain merit categories have had their max amounts of adjustments increased over time

Don't think this would be a solution.
"Scaling" means that the stats of your pets (or at least a small part of them) receive a dynamic bonus according to the stats of the master.
This means that if your master receives a buff that increase its stats, the pet will receive a small % of increase to.
This means that if your master upgrades his gear then the pet's stats too will see a small jump forward.

Can't abuse of this like other games do, wouldn't work in FFXI, and we don't want to make pet-specific buffs/gear useless.
At least I don't.
That's why I suggested that this scaling should be very small and only applied to a certain number of stats.
For instance Attack, 10:1. For every 10 points of attack the master has, the pet will gain one.
Master has 800 attack? Pet will have +80 attack bonus.
They could apply this to Defense too and other stats, with different ratios of course.
Only some very basic stats like basic attributes maybe and Att/ratt/mab/acc/racc/macc/def/eva.

For everything else and much more, you'll still have "Pet: ..." gear.
I'm not against the new "Pets" merit category btw. I would warmly welcome that! I'm just staying that they should do "only" that but both things, because while the merit category would be an awesome addition, it probably wouldn't solve the issues I mentioned (scaling and survivability)

[Sasaraixx]

Adding grips is now considered a job adjustment? I can't take this seriously. Unless these items are beyond broken and easy to obtain, nothing will change. Why not listen to the players? There are TONS of great ideas in this thread alone.

Also, there is no follow up to the enmity concerns we've voiced AND no discussion about the fundamental issues hurting pet jobs. On the same day we get a lengthy post about R/M/E weapons and changes to 1-handed damage calculations, they tell us that these are our adjustments? I'm just about ready to give up.

[Kojo]

When are RUN and GEO Mythics and Mythic WSs coming?

[Losie]

Greetings!

Below is a comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to adjustments to take place in the next version update.

Mr. Matsui makes an extremely good point in regards to development about the progression of jobs once progression becomes equipment based.

Because of that, I'd like to ask that the dev team consider Rune Fencer's Lunge - it's based 100% on MAB and your current weapon's skill. Due to it not being based on the weapon's damage in any way, Rune Fencers are stuck collecting and macro'ing in tons of MAB for just one single ability. It'd be rather nice to not have to carry, much less spend tons of plasm/bayld/etc., as much MAB gear in lieu for a skill that scales much better at higher levels.

Second, does "artifact equipment" include any af2/relic/relic2/etc. gear? Or will is JUST be the 50-60 stuff mostly for fun and the few lower level folks/macroing in and out of constantly? Extremely glad to see merits done.

[Calysto]

Dragoon
Addition of polearms that have stats to increase the parameters of wyverns.

Summoner
Addition of grips that have stats to increase the parameters of avatars.

polearm that boost the pet ? congratulation on wasting every drg effort in getting a good weapon. sure theses can be good. that's going to be another reason for me to toss my empyrean i guess.
well, good to know that you know the job. we'll probably get another version of the magian "pet mab" lance. good job on that one btw.
if an equipement is even needed to boost the pet(aka making it not obsolete), why not use something like ranged or ammo, or even earing ?

as for smn and grips, you mean more stuff that take inventory ? i'm sure some of my friends will be happy to need another slots for 8/9 grips to go with their 9 staffs collection. don't forget to make it as situationnal as possible of course, it'd be a shame if it was to be useful.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone (and happy Friday!),

I'd like to follow up a bit about the planned wyvern enhancements for dragoon.

To give a simpler idea of what we have planned, by equipping a high content level weapon, we are envisioning that the stats of your wyvern also increase along with you. It's somewhat close to what a player mentioned about making it so your wyverns damage value, delay, attack, and defense increase based on your own values.

Currently there are pieces of equipment that have pet enhancing stats and by equipping them they influence your pet's strength (for example, there are already polearms in existence that enhance wyverns); however, this is not what we will be doing this time with polearms. With that said, it'll help a lot if you think of this as the polearms that are to be introduced from here on out will allow you enhance your wyvern, and the enhancements will not only increase specific stats. (We will be making it possible to enhance your wyverns after we implement the RME revamps.)

Also, the reason we didn't choose grips was because there are varieties of strong pieces of equipment that can be selected based on the situation, and if we were to make these enhance wyverns, it would be difficult to choose other options.

With that said, we felt it would be best for dragoons to be able to enhance their wyverns with their weapons.