What will become of Red Mage v1.0?

[OmnysValefor]

Blu, ok.

- It has a fair heal that probably won't cast as fast as anyone but a blm, pld, or smn's cure IV, and probably not that fast (well, faster than a pld, probably)..
- It has supporting spells (Winds of Promy is <3, Diamondhide), but most of its spells are self cast only. You can bet that if a blu could directly, repeatedly, cast animating wall or magic barrier on others, blus would be on the mage line. Blu also, of course, has to equip most of its spells, and to do damage (not even great damage, especially as more and more people get weapons), it has to equip spells it won't even use to further its dd potential.

Blu's have saved key lives, and thus saved the alliance, but noone brings blu as a healer, largely because it can't natively heal outside of it's group.

[Demon6324236]

I'm not against SE doing whatever with rdm melee. I am against SE doing whatever with rdm melee right now, when their time would be better spent working on other, far more content-relevant issues and/or the major worries and problems that a significantly larger portion of the player base has to deal with than just the small crowd of rdms who want to be better with swords even though no one will ever invite them to melee no matter how good SE makes them.

The time it would take them to improve RDM would be the same amount of time it took them to screw up and fix Nares gear when BLU got put on it after Adoulin came out. Put RDM on the VW and NNI Light DD gear sets as well as Abyssea's Pink and Adoulin's Thurandaut and we will be much better off, an update which I think could be done in no time.

[Demon6324236]

but noone brings blu as a healer

No, they haven't, what have they brought it as ladies and gents? A hybrid! Oh my god, its almost as if I said that was what they were to begin with, and as though I said that was what RDM was and should be more like!?

[OmnysValefor]

They don't bring it as hybrid, they bring as a DD.

They don't care that it can heal, they don't care that it can diamondhide, they don't care that it can hastega.

Let me put taht another way, saying rdm should melee better because blu is a hybrid too is like saying rdm should melee better because nin is a hybrid. People bring these jobs for one purpose, and when they can't bring them for that purpose, they...don't bring them.

[Zagen]

The time it would take them to improve RDM would be the same amount of time it took them to screw up and fix Nares gear when BLU got put on it after Adoulin came out. Put RDM on the VW and NNI Light DD gear sets as well as Abyssea's Pink and Adoulin's Thurandaut and we will be much better off, an update which I think could be done in no time.

Wait how exactly would that make you more appealing to those parties that don't feel RDM has a purpose? That's the point of this thread right?

Edit:

They don't bring it as hybrid, they bring as a DD.

On Delve stuff the only time I've seen a BLU wanted, was for ES Absolute Terror, SA Spells (before the depsawn timer), or for Self Skillchains. So it isn't even wanted as "DD" in the sense of raw damage.

[Demon6324236]

I'm done arguing with people, if you can not comprehend the idea of a hybrid job then it is not my job nor obligation to teach you the idea of it, simply put, if you want a DD, you get a WAR, DRK, MNK, SAM, or something in that line. If you want a support you get a BRD, COR, WHM, SCH, or something in that line, the jobs with more than just those abilities are either tanks, pet jobs, or some sort of hybrid, most if not all hybrids get gear which flushes out both sides of their abilities enough to be of use, RDM does not truly get good melee gear which along with its general lack in other melee departments restrict it to a back line job which has already been filled by many other jobs, as such, it needs a boost in this one field to fulfill its job requirements.

[OmnysValefor]

That's where you're just not getting it.

1handers, by and large, don't get gear to "flush out" both sides for fast kills. I don't mean zerging, I simply mean killing as fast as possible. I don't know how Phoenix handles things but I was never in a VW with more than 1 pup, dnc, bst, thf, pld, rdm. It was not impossible to see 2 nin.

- DNC can dd, provide a unique set of party buffs, and heal in a clutch for a short duration (unless Tranced). Because of this, for whatever reason, dnc is kept far inferior to 2hr's.
- BST has the protection and assistance of their pets. This gives them more survivability than most melee. Because of this, for whatever reason, bst is kept far inferior to 2hr's.
- NIN has excellent survivability, accomodates many subs, excellent tank, because of this, nin is kept far inferior to 2hr's.
- PLD, with the proper shield for the situation, has nearly unmatchable survivability, and is *the* tank--because of this, pld is kept far inferior to 2hr's.
- BLU's spells don't rise with weapon damage, thus their spells remain sort of stagnant, because of this, BLU is kept far inferior to 2hr's..
THF has Treasure Hunter, if you want a drop, you sacrifice a spot to a thf, because of this--even though it isn't so applicable to many aspects of the game anymore--thf is kept far inferior to 2hr's.

And these are each jobs with two aspects, and really bst is just a DD that sucks at anything hard. Your pet goes down quickly if you're not willing to dump food after food into him and that's so he can miss, while you miss because, not only are bst's skills behind war, for instance, bst's offensive abilities are none, they can't sub a DD sub because they need to be dual wielding, and the gear options aren't there to make pets hit these mobs, and that's before adoulin.

If I could remember them, I could count the number of times, on all my fingers that we had a bst or pup in the alliance. RDM was very rare and aside from pil, or something with adds, pld was a last-resort option as well.

The only one hander you'd see more than one of is blue and that's because of poor design.

Finally, 1hr's are looking at the weapon options and some of them need to offhand their pre-adoulin weapon. Some have the option of dual-wielding a weapon of a different type, but your ws's don't get the extra hit in that case--because of this, 1hr's are...

And

it needs a boost in this one field to fulfill its job requirements.

Nobody is requiring rdm to melee.

[Demon6324236]

Nobody is requiring rdm to melee.

Its job requirements as a jack of all trades requires it to be able to do everything to an acceptable standard while not going beyond those who are designed with the specific capabilities to melee awesomely, for instance, we are not meant to beat a WAR, DRK, or SAM, however we can come close to a BLU, THF, or NIN, and still be within our job description, we will not be top of the DD charts. The thing that is harder to balance about melee is the fact that unlike healing, where we are 3rd (WHM>SCH>RDM>PLD) or nuking where we are 3rd (BLM>SCH>RDM>DRK) melees have a much longer list of jobs, and in the end, all jobs can truly melee to some extent, so the question becomes where does one draw the line for RDM? In truth, even if you gave RDM the light DD sets I ask for all the time it would boost RDM's damage by enough to put it closer to the light DDs but it would not surpass them, most of them either have better WSs or better traits/abilities which let them surpass us either way you go about it, but it gets us closer, as a jack of all trades, that is our goal, to be following behind others enough to be of use but not enough to be stronger than them.

[SpankWustler]

Delve's re-introduction of single enemy fights that include more than two people and often last longer than five minutes makes Vana'diel ripe for some new enfeebling magic. So, I pessimistically prognosticate that no new Enfeebling magic will be added and Red Mage will receive a third tier of en-spells that are ideal while somehow one-half wielding.

The first guy who really enjoys getting hit by AoEs and figures out how to break his weapon in half over a rock; he'll make out like a bandit!

Red Mage is already the best guy from the mage pile at the lion's share of what every guy from the utility melee pile normally do really well. Those things generally consist of soloing content like Dynamis or Salvage I, though. The loftiest dream of any man with a one-handed weapon at present is probably to auto-engage a Supernal Chapuli and go AFK.

If some bro really wants to equip the Athos set, though, that would take all of five minutes to change and wouldn't even change game balance enough to require examination. Why not do it if it'll make somebody happy?

[Duelle]

In truth, even if you gave RDM the light DD sets I ask for all the time it would boost RDM's damage by enough to put it closer to the light DDs but it would not surpass them, most of them either have better WSs or better traits/abilities which let them surpass us either way you go about it, but it gets us closer, as a jack of all trades, that is our goal, to be following behind others enough to be of use but not enough to be stronger than them.

I'll agree with this.

In concurrence to this, most of the stuff I mentioned in my post falls under quality of life, aside from my asking for more access to melee gear. The only real "major change" would be the stuff about merits, but I am of the opinion that merits in general (applicable to all jobs) are at best lackluster and at worst downright horrible.