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  1. #81
    Player Hexadecimal's Avatar
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    Character
    Hexadecimal
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    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I liken RDM to a Swiss Army Knife (it's even the right color). Useful to have around because it can fit into almost any role with the right gear. It's one of those jobs you put in a flex position in your party or alliance to "flip the switch" and change roles on the fly, which is especially good for when you need to low-man something. It's not intended to be the "best" at everything. It's intended to be the best at being pretty good at everything. That is its utility.
    (0)
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    Hexadecimal of Asura
    アスラのへクスデシマル

  2. #82
    Player Naraku_Diabolos's Avatar
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    I may not have a Lv99 job (such as RDM), but I've always melee as one. Well, RDM/WAR. I got accepted into parties years ago (I have just taken breaks from FFXI because of schooling, then FFXIV came along...) as RDM and they always needed an extra DD. So, I always figured to sub WAR with it. I did pretty good, sort of like a pseudo-PLD in a way. I had good armor and my sword was always up-to-date. Still, I've just been toying with my other jobs and haven't really taken one to higher levels like everyone else. Still, I enjoy soloing as RDM (I never got invites to parties, even as RDM/WHM, or with any other jobs; that's why I've been soloing all the time now) with WAR subbed and I've had good success with soloing.

    BUT, I liked melee with my RDM! I always En-element my blade and fight the monsters. Now that RUN can do that starting from Lv5... I figured the "fix" for RDM was introducing RUN.
    (0)

  3. #83
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos View Post
    BUT, I liked melee with my RDM! I always En-element my blade and fight the monsters. Now that RUN can do that starting from Lv5... I figured the "fix" for RDM was introducing RUN.
    RUN is fun and can deal out OK dmg, but my RDM's En-Spells still out do the RUN's full set of Runes, and with no native Curing ability, RUN is far more squishy than RDM is. I just wish that RDM go the other two elements for En-spells and a Tier II version. RDM may not have the highest DD with a base weapon but if they changed the En-II like I mentioned before and drastically up there Additional DMG with a the higher Enhancing skill... With the Right situation a RDM could do Hell-a-good dmg wise to a mob. Every creature has a weakness. And by changing those En-II it would give RDM the reason to melee they're looking for, and somewhat negate the extra TP feed, though most things now have Auto-Regain.

    Enblizzard II -> Extends and up proc for Paralyze
    Enfire II -> Extends Amnesia
    Enaero II -> Extends Silence
    Enstone II -> Increases Slows effect by 1 tier or 50%
    Enwater II -> Increases Poisons effect by 30% and extends duration
    Enthunder II -> Increase duration of Stun
    Enlight II -> Increase the Status down effect of Dia and extends it's duration/Increase the duration of Flash
    Endark II -> Increase the Status down effect of Bio and extends it's duration/Increase the effect of Blind and extends it's duration.
    All of those could also effect ANY matching debuff: Absord-STR, Chock, Noctohelix
    Lots of ideas that could help RDM.
    (0)
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

  4. #84
    Player Ritsuka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    The question should be "why not?".

    If you notice, everything mentioned so far has been melee-related. I doubt any of us would ask for a return of ye olde "kite+DoT+Nuke" soloing, which encompassed all RDM soloing pre-Abyssea. I personally want the sword to be more useful and RDM to be kept in mind and treated as a melee mage. Right now the job is an afterthought, and has been treated as such since the Abyssea era.
    Redmage was hated for its ability to solo well. Not for its melee side. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have stronger sword weapon skills or something but if it can be bound or gravity rdm can solo it. That's why most stuff in abysses couldn't be bound
    (0)

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritsuka View Post
    Redmage was hated for its ability to solo well. Not for its melee side. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have stronger sword weapon skills or something but if it can be bound or gravity rdm can solo it. That's why most stuff in abysses couldn't be bound
    Which is exactly his point, we don't want to go back to soloing that way, we want some more real use, and since Abyssea we have been mostly left for dead as we are because of our old soloing ways, giving us some more melee power to go with our role would be awesome and in no way what the old problem was nor would it create another problem in its stead.
    (1)

  6. #86
    Player Duelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    Which is exactly his point, we don't want to go back to soloing that way, we want some more real use, and since Abyssea we have been mostly left for dead as we are because of our old soloing ways, giving us some more melee power to go with our role would be awesome and in no way what the old problem was nor would it create another problem in its stead.
    As I've said many a time, I wish Bind would have gotten nerfed as soon as the first avesta video came out. Gravity could have been redesigned to be strictly Evasion Down (with a much longer duration to compensate), then many years later when Gravity II is introduced it could have had the movement speed down effect (with the diminishing returns the devs became so fond of). For good measure, make any boss-level mob immune to Bind and Gravity II.

    There, I just killed RDM soloing and removed a big part of the "negatives" other players have placed against our job.

    Anyway, a friend of mine decided to weigh in after she saw this thread. As she cancelled her account and Adoulin has not dragged her back the way it did me, I'll paste below (Warning - Long Read):

    Quote Originally Posted by A friend
    It's no surprise seeing people still insist on keeping RDM down. Like usual, the reasons are pretty weak. Even attempts to justify their current usefulness fall pretty flat. Okay, so there are some Delve mobs that need enfeebled in some capacity, yet when I look to the strategies of these mobs, it's usually, "Just keep Dia on it!" for the Scorpion, Gnat, and the Wamoura until you're finished shedding its DT via Exuviation. The only oddity here is the Pieste and landing Blind, but this is when I fall back to pointing out Blind is neither a unique debuff to RDM, nor do other jobs have difficulty in cobbling together a mix of skill and MACC to land their own native spells.

    It's not uncommon to see a sentiment along the lines of, "If you want to X, play Y job instead of RDM!" If you want to inflict DPS, indeed, there are numerous better solutions. If want to heal, WHM and SCH have you beat with SMN even having its situational time in the spotlight. If you want to nuke, BLM, SCH, and now GEO are looking more the go-to options. The sentiment of BLU being the Melee RDM that RDM was meant to be isn't lost on me, just as SCH succeeds in being the backline RDM some RDMs in denial crave. Despite this, it does not mean RDM has no place in the game.

    Conceptually, I tend to look at the job on the whole. No doubt that cries of being overpowered may follow, but a degree of that will be required to shake some people out of their rigid position on the matter. If I'm being succinctly blunt in summary, the job needs an overhaul.

    Let's start with Combat skill ratings and the proposed changes:

    1) Dagger = B > A-
    2) Sword = B > A (With EX WS unlocked)
    3) Club = D > B
    4) Archery = D > C
    5) Throwing = F > C
    6) Evasion = D > B-
    7) Parrying = E > A
    8) Shield = F > B+

    Now for Magic skills:

    1) Enfeebling = A+ > No Change
    2) Enhancing = B+ > A+
    3) Elemental = C+ > B+
    4) Healing = C- > C
    5) Dark = E > B-
    6) Divine = E = B-

    I suspect there is a mix of confusion and probably even some rage at some of the proposed, but roll with me here as I continue to paint the bigger picture. But since we're on the topic of spells, let's add some quick basic ones. Unique ones will come later. Anyway, add Banish I-IV, Drain, Aspir, and Absorb-TP. All merit spells should also be scroll learned, but I'll elaborate more on that later, too.


    Now for Job Traits:

    1) Fast Cast = V > No Change
    2) Magic Attack Bonus = III > IV
    3) Magic Defense Bonus = III > IV
    4) Tranquil Heart = I > REMOVE
    5) Resist Petrify = V > No Change
    6) Clear Mind = III > No Change
    7) Magic Burst Bonus = II > V
    8) Shield Mastery = II > III

    Removing Tranquil Heart probably lifted a few eyebrows, but again, bigger picture. I will now list new traits I'd like to see, both existing and original to help.

    Additional Job Traits:

    1) Accuracy Bonus at levels 30, 60, and 80.
    2) Attack Bonus at levels 45 and 75.
    3) Fencer at levels 10, 30, 55, 80, 99.
    4) Auto Refresh at levels 50 and 90.
    5) Occult Accumen at 20, 50, 70, 90.

    New Traits:

    1) Enhancing Mastery at 15, 30, 55, 75, 99: Each tier adds 20% to all Enhancing Magic durations. Applying a buff will also grant 5% TP to the RDM.
    2) Gauche et Droite at 10, 45, and 75: Unlocks a specific type of Dual-Wield to RDM with Sword in the main-hand and Dagger in the off-hand. Each tier adds a 5% delay reduction. A +3/4/5 to Magic Affinity is also applied if utilizing this trait. Fencer applies to this trait as well as the RDM being able to use their respective Sword and Dagger WS without main-hand restriction.
    3) Coup de Grace: Landing a Weaponskill improves the potency of all active debuffs* on the target as well as extending their duration by 30 seconds. WS also improve MB accuracy and damage for a short time.
    4) Crippling Intuition: Landing a debuff grants 15% TP.
    5) Combat Caster at 15, 30, 55, 75, 99: If within range of your target and engaged, you gain a chance to attack when completing a spell. This attack will have heightened accuracy while INT and MND add to ATK for the strike.

    Okay, so a common problem I've always tried to stress with RDM and the melee shortcoming is that you spend too much time casting to be considered a reasonable contribution. #1 is meant to address this, but I also want to change Composure to work on everyone regardless of Emp gear. I'll touch on that when focusing more on JAs. #2 is a definite biggy. When paired the last point, a RDM losing TP swaping staves or clubs essentially made it impossible to WS unless you wanted to deliberately gimp your magic. RDM is also pretty much married to /NIN if you ever want to melee, but it also robs the job of various sub options. This will help to open that up. #3 is there to better encourage a front-line presence even if RDM isn't the hardest hitter on the block. The * I noted on debuffs will also be clarified when I talk on Enfeebles.

    When I updated Shield's skill rating, I also had another intention in tweaking Shield Mastery. However, since this would also affect PLD, I can understand if it might not be well received. Essentially, single-wielding is a no-no for DPSing, thus the earlier nod to /NIN and GeD. Many have also pointed out that RDM simply can't get a mob's attention or hold it due to damage limitations or the past adjustments to debuff enmity. The idea for SM would be that each tier would grant a chance to "attack" with your shield not unlike Shield Bash in Double Attack form. With damage based on the size of your shield, the additional effect would be forcing the mob's attention to you for 3s regardless of the enmity table. Though, this effect could only land once every 5s. Like this, RDM can at least put spells like Phalanx, Blink, and Stoneskin to better use.


    Now for magic. At present, I'll say Healing is where it should be. Elemental Magic also has the pending adjustment, so I'll refrain from commenting here heavily. What I will urge, however, is SE exercising caution in that. Just as many RDMs dread being a Pink Mage wanted for nothing but heals and buffs, try not to turn the job into a Purple Mage by making it most effective by simply spamming nukes. My real aim here is to emphasize RDM as an MBer over a free-nuker, but that'll still have its place from time to time. And then, there is Enfeebling Magic...

    Drastic change here, so brace yourselves. Every single debuff a player can cast will be revised to have Levels much like DNC Steps. The tier of the spell will determine what level of the debuff initially lands. For example, Slow II will land a Level 2 Slow. On top of this, any INT or MND modifications to potency will be removed, instead only serving to boost MACC. In turn, all magic debuffs will receive a fixed rate. Using Slow again, Level 1 will be 25%. Level 2 will be 40%. Remember the mention of changing merits? Yeah, Slow II becomes a level 60 spell, with RDM now gaining Slow III at 95+ for a 55% effect. Of course, similar carries over to the other spells with their own fixed potencies and level requirements. But wait, there's more! Remember Coup de Grace? Let's say you land Slow III and then hit a WS. Congratulations, you have now landed "Slow IV" with a 60% potency and giving 30 more seconds to the debuff. Did you Saboteur Slow III? Add 10% instead. All debuffs should have a Level 5 effect coded into the game. In comparison, the other classes will only have Level 1 effect spells with respect to Slow, Paralyze, and Blind. I wouldn't object to SCH getting the tier 2s in the proper Arts, but that's another matter.

    I've brought up these ideas in past RDM threads. The pro-backline crowd usually gets uppity because they see nothing they can directly capitalize on. This is when I like to emphasize that the risk of melee and being in range should yield a benefit. This would be why you simply couldn't cast a Slow V or why GeD's affinity bonus doesn't apply to staves or some kind of generic Enspell bonus. All that "not good enough to..." rhetoric needs to be stripped away, and while I am of the mind some modest damage improvements are okay (as reflected through skill adjustments and traits), the point is you want to do more for your group than just DPSing. Fights with stronger mobs will begin with you inflicting your array of debuffs and possible buffs to allies. With a stock of TP generated, you begin the process of sustaining these debuffs through WS use, which best suits RDM as a Skillchain opener they can then MB on. Played well and properly buffed in a long fight, you will not need to recast your debuffs unless the mob has a means to remove them. This saves up some MP for spot cures or maintaining things like Stoneskin and Blink.

    Yet, this isn't to say RDM couldn't use some further new spells...

    Renew: Some may propose this as a JA, but I see it better as a spell. For 100 MP, you reset all buffs to the max duration your current gear and traits allows.
    Float: Increases movement speed for you and your allies. Wears off when struck or making an offensive action.
    Feather: Improves Critical Hit Rate by 1% per 50 Enhancing Skill.
    Dispel II: Removes 3 beneficial effects from the target.
    Poison: While not new, this spell line needs an overhaul to be worth casting. Basically, Poison needs to be RDM's Helix spell and this damage buff can be tied to having the Crippling Intuition trait.
    Enspells: As has been reported time and again, T2 Enspells suck for so many reasons. Let them work on all hits. Make MACC based on-cast instead of on-strike. Nix the damage scaling and make it flat double T1s. This is largely our "fix" for ATK deficiency against harder prey.
    Persistence: Grants a buff that, when hit with an effect that would Dispel your buffs, this buff is consumed instead.

    Duelle-added note: Before anyone cries OP or any of that nonsense, if you feel your own jobs need fixes of this caliber (looking at you, SMN, BST, THF and to an extent, NIN), then please post suggestions instead of bashing those of us who do take time to post suggestions and fixes for our jobs.
    (5)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line.

  7. #87
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    As I've said many a time, I wish Bind would have gotten nerfed as soon as the first avesta video came out. Gravity could have been redesigned to be strictly Evasion Down (with a much longer duration to compensate), then many years later when Gravity II is introduced it could have had the movement speed down effect (with the diminishing returns the devs became so fond of). For good measure, make any boss-level mob immune to Bind and Gravity II.

    There, I just killed RDM soloing and removed a big part of the "negatives" other players have placed against our job.

    Anyway, a friend of mine decided to weigh in after she saw this thread. As she cancelled her account and Adoulin has not dragged her back the way it did me, I'll paste below (Warning - Long Read):
    While I did take the time to read most of your friends post, and I'm all for RDM getting a bump... Still A LOT of what he suggests is far too much. O_o

    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by A friend
    Let's start with Combat skill ratings and the proposed changes:

    1) Dagger = B > A-
    2) Sword = B > A (With EX WS unlocked)
    3) Club = D > B
    4) Archery = D > C
    5) Throwing = F > C

    6) Evasion = D > B-
    7) Parrying = E > A

    8) Shield = F > B+
    I'm gonna start here... The RDM's weapon of choice is Sword and Dagger, There's no real point in upping club when RDM doesn't even get access to most of the Weaponskills. Likewise, a bump to archery is pointless because only SAM, RNG, and COR can even use the WS there. Throw is also pointless, because in most cases: You're not going to hit what is there anyway, there's no WS to got in junction with it, DMG from most throwing weapons are awful, and Most mages use that slot for some type of boost to MP, MAB, etc. I'm kind of torn with the EVA, because BST, PLD, DRK only gets C, but that B- would be nice. The other Jobs that do have higher, make sense seeing how a PUP is a performer and would have a better dodge than most, DRG is a jumping machine, SAM is a trained fighter, and so on with the A and what-not. Parry is nice but even WAR and PLD don't have more than a C in that, and as shields go... I'm again torn. I use mostly Duel-wield and not shields but I'm not completely against the idea. But all in all, RDM only get a few Kite style shield and I think is gets none from the Tower style, leaving not a lot of real choice outside of Genbu's Shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by A friend
    Now for Magic skills:

    1) Enfeebling = A+ > No Change
    2) Enhancing = B+ > A+
    3) Elemental = C+ > B+
    4) Healing = C- > C
    5) Dark = E > B-
    6) Divine = E = B-

    I suspect there is a mix of confusion and probably even some rage at some of the proposed, but roll with me here as I continue to paint the bigger picture. But since we're on the topic of spells, let's add some quick basic ones. Unique ones will come later. Anyway, add Banish I-IV, Drain, Aspir, and Absorb-TP. All merit spells should also be scroll learned, but I'll elaborate more on that later, too.
    I'd like to RDM gain more Dark and Divine Spells... but RDM should really only get Banish I/II, Holy, and Flash... And only SMN gets Banish IV as it stands, so NO WAY RDM should get that. And for Enhancing, I'd have to strongly disagree with that. A vast majority of RDM's spells can't be cast on Party members, so it make no sense to boost it. And Elemental Magic, A B- or B would be more suited.


    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by A friend
    Now for Job Traits:

    1) Fast Cast = V > No Change
    2) Magic Attack Bonus = III > IV
    3) Magic Defense Bonus = III > IV
    4) Tranquil Heart = I > REMOVE
    5) Resist Petrify = V > No Change
    6) Clear Mind = III > No Change
    7) Magic Burst Bonus = II > V
    8) Shield Mastery = II > III

    Removing Tranquil Heart probably lifted a few eyebrows, but again, bigger picture. I will now list new traits I'd like to see, both existing and original to help.
    Tran. Heart is a single tier JT, so it's fine to leave, because we want the -enimty if we are in the "Healer Role", and Magic Burst Bonus should be 3 or 4, not 5... Not that people really skillchain much anymore anyway....

    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by A friend
    Additional Job Traits:

    1) Accuracy Bonus at levels 30, 60, and 80.
    2) Attack Bonus at levels 45 and 75.
    3) Fencer at levels 10, 30, 55, 80, 99.
    4) Auto Refresh at levels 50 and 90.
    5) Occult Accumen at 20, 50, 70, 90.
    Fencer only has 5 tiers as is and only WAR get that, while I agree RDM should have it, I feel the Tier 3 is more reasonable. I give an ABSOLUTE NO on Auto-Refresh, again Only 2 Tiers to that trait and SMN gets it and NEEDS it far more that RDM ever would. RDM gets refresh from gear & the spells, plus has convert, native Cures without relying on TP to increase effectiveness, and composer to extend spell effects. And While I agree with the addition of Occult Omen to RDM as it makes far more sense to have it than a BLM or SCH which will most likely switch their staves. Tier 3 would be fine is most cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by A friend
    New Traits:

    1) Enhancing Mastery at 15, 30, 55, 75, 99: Each tier adds 20% to all Enhancing Magic durations. Applying a buff will also grant 5% TP to the RDM.
    2) Gauche et Droite at 10, 45, and 75: Unlocks a specific type of Dual-Wield to RDM with Sword in the main-hand and Dagger in the off-hand. Each tier adds a 5% delay reduction. A +3/4/5 to Magic Affinity is also applied if utilizing this trait. Fencer applies to this trait as well as the RDM being able to use their respective Sword and Dagger WS without main-hand restriction.
    3) Coup de Grace: Landing a Weaponskill improves the potency of all active debuffs* on the target as well as extending their duration by 30 seconds. WS also improve MB accuracy and damage for a short time.
    4) Crippling Intuition: Landing a debuff grants 15% TP.
    5) Combat Caster at 15, 30, 55, 75, 99: If within range of your target and engaged, you gain a chance to attack when completing a spell. This attack will have heightened accuracy while INT and MND add to ATK for the strike.
    Most of these are completely over-powered and hardly fit. The first one for instance... I've said before, RDM's spells are mostly self casting, so that wouldn't really help, and a skill like would be more fitting for a WHM. The second one is also kind of not fitting. The point of Fencer is to NOT have a second weapon in hand, and this trait is basically a slap in the face of those jobs that DO have fencer and those that have Duel-Wield... And as much as I hate to admit it: WAR, NIN, or THF would be more suited to have a JT that opens both Weapon slots WS trees. Now 3 kind of goes along with my idea of En-Spell II changes, and if the debuff was effected by the elemental type of the WS, such as cyclone with silence, and Shining Blade with Dia. Then it'd be workable. Number four, I kind of like, it's very similar to Occult Omen and would go with more of a 10% TP gain. And 5, well... yeah.... I don't see that one working out functionality wise as spells and JA reset the attack timer, if it would reduce the delay from end of spell to next attack, then that might be kind of awesome, and something that NIN, DRK, and PLD could/should get too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Originally Posted by A friend
    Yet, this isn't to say RDM couldn't use some further new spells...

    Renew: Some may propose this as a JA, but I see it better as a spell. For 100 MP, you reset all buffs to the max duration your current gear and traits allows.
    Float: Increases movement speed for you and your allies. Wears off when struck or making an offensive action.
    Feather: Improves Critical Hit Rate by 1% per 50 Enhancing Skill.
    Dispel II: Removes 3 beneficial effects from the target.
    Poison: While not new, this spell line needs an overhaul to be worth casting. Basically, Poison needs to be RDM's Helix spell and this damage buff can be tied to having the Crippling Intuition trait.
    Enspells: As has been reported time and again, T2 Enspells suck for so many reasons. Let them work on all hits. Make MACC based on-cast instead of on-strike. Nix the damage scaling and make it flat double T1s. This is largely our "fix" for ATK deficiency against harder prey.
    Persistence: Grants a buff that, when hit with an effect that would Dispel your buffs, this buff is consumed instead.
    Would Renew also apply to Buffs like COR rolls, BRD songs, SMN Wards, etc....
    Perhaps a different Name for Feather, I see it more as a Crit % Down effect with a name like that, which would actually be a GREAT spell. I feel that Dispel II should grow with enfeebling skills: 2 buffs with a certain skill, and then 3 with a high level of enfeebling. Persistence also wouldn't help in instances where the mob can dispel more that 1 buffs at a time.

    I'm not saying that all your friend's ideas are bad, but they aren't taking into account ANY of the other jobs in the game.
    (2)
    Last edited by Zeargi; 05-21-2013 at 09:04 AM. Reason: grammar
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

  8. #88
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    At this point they might make everyone happier if they just took rdm out of xi and put it in xiv.
    (0)

  9. #89
    Player Duelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JouriStarz View Post
    At this point they might make everyone happier if they just took rdm out of xi and put it in xiv.
    They'd have to get it right. Seeing that Yoshida Naoki was in charge when our AF3 set (you know, the one that's called "Swordman's Set" yet has no melee stats on it) was made, I'm not sure I'd trust his rendition of RDM to be any better than what we currently have.
    (0)
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line.

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