Summoner in Colonization Reives = Broken

[RAIST]

I have no issues getting points or Bayld on DD jobs. The topic at hand is that the event is unbalanced in a number of ways and 1 job getting special exception to game mechanics for said event can lead to exclusion of intended function of similar jobs.

So which is it.... one job is taking the xp from everyone else (including yourself), or you are able to get good xp regardless if this other job is so broken that it is stealing the xp from everyone?

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Ever see a SAM or BLU in action in there?

Or a well geared PLD?

Methinks you may be a bit confuseded on what is going on out there.

[RAIST]

Legion, Odin 2.0, Voidwatch, abyssea solos.

All of which are irrelevant to SoA expansion (aside from acquiring gear from those events, that may impact participation in SoA). In order to get the SoA gear and such....one needs to either participate in reives or do assignments/quests for SoA because of the new currency requirement.

So which is it... let every job find it's little niche to be relevant in Reives, or you relegate them to spamming things like Lost Articles or other fetch or delivery assignments over and over and over.

[Aezelas]

Legion, Odin 2.0, Voidwatch, abyssea solos.

I give you Voidwatch.
Not the other 3 anymore.

The solution to your problem wouldn't be nerfing smn, or any other job. But making other BPs useful.
What if whm coudn't target players outside their own party?
One solution would be adjusting the baylds gain so buffs BP, still hitting all players, would give significant baylds. I would leave healing duty to mages.

[Malphius]

Telling me that you don't believe that putting a party restriction on summoner would make them worthless means nothing. As someone who only plays summoner at the moment, and is very interested in the numbers, and has tried most things under the sun to see what would result in good bayld gain, I can tell you that putting a party restriction without massive changes to how bayld is calculated would force you to not take summoner to reive's.

Telling me to use my subjob is silly. You are basically arguing to not come as a summoner, because if all I'm getting points for is curing as my subjob, then why not just come as WHM or SCH main for bigger better heals? Also light spirit does essentially nothing. Tried a few reive's using only it, in buffing / healing mode, and it cast maybe one heal on someone else, and threw a few protect / shell 5's, and as far as I could tell, I received no bayld / xp for it doing anything.

Your thread is very inflammatory considering the current feeling of summoners on the board, which is why you got angry responses from some people :P The problem is to fix the issue you are having, other large problems must be fixed first. Until those are fixed, simply changing the function of summoner in reive's removes them completely from the content.

On top of all that, I will add that while you may not think it is balanced, I think being able to buff everyone with blood pacts is fun. It is not fun to not be able to target people outside your party with your abilities. I think making it easier to use your beneficial abilities on all allies is a step in the right direction, and the game should be moved to be 'balanced' more around that. I understand the game is archaic and has limitations, but steps should be made to mitigate those instead of accepting them and moving on.

I'm sorry that you believe the obvious to be worthless. Every other job is under that same exact restriction at this very moment. Again SMN's feel entitled to be the exception out of a sense of personal entitlement or personal preference.

I'm not telling you to rely on your subjob. You said to me that you can't target other parties with your avatar to which I replied that nor can I target or use my AoE abilities on other parties or alliances. I pointed out to you that you have the same tools at your disposal as any other mage class job to over come those restrictions. SCH only gets Cure 4 and Accession to cure outside parties. The exact same thing you get. Only that right now SMN has a leg up on everyone else because it's avatars STILL posses the ability to hit everyone with in range.

Maintaining that maybe the other support classes should melee is the silly notion. Arguing that SMN be an exception because you feel neglected everywhere else in the game is again, the silly notion.

My thread is far from inflammatory. I've only pointed out the obvious and asked for a reasonable explanation as to why they should be an exception and why they are fine with alienating an entire class in their favor. The response is always the same only the words change a little. Everyone is dancing around the issue but clearly the SMN community here is very self centered. Nobody will come right out and say that they're okay with pushing others out but they sure are framing that mindset quite effectively.

As far as a matter of balance goes I suppose that could be subjective but not in this case. Not only would your proposal ruin the entire balance of the game as opposed to just 1 event it would alienate SMN even more than you claim to be now. Who is gonna bring a few SMN to anything anymore when one SMN can hit an entire ally with PD? One of the only reasons SMN can push out others here is because of the tight spaces. It would be far less effective in the rest of the game.

[Malphius]

All of which are irrelevant to SoA expansion (aside from acquiring gear from those events, that may impact participation in SoA). In order to get the SoA gear and such....one needs to either participate in reives or do assignments/quests for SoA because of the new currency requirement.

So which is it... let every job find it's little niche to be relevant in Reives, or you relegate them to spamming things like Lost Articles or other fetch or delivery assignments over and over and over.

So you're saying that since the expansion came out, SMN is no longer neglected and reigns supreme. Got it.

[RAIST]

here's a little irony for you.

About 2 weeks ago, I actually left SAM and got back on SMN because one wasn't present, and everyone was getting their faces eaten off.

Something that doesn't appear to being considered much, even though it was touched on earlier. SMN fulfills a needed role out there BECAUSE of it's AOE buffs/heals. What happens when that is taken away? Wonder if there will be cries to reset it?

[Malphius]

I give you Voidwatch.
Not the other 3 anymore.

The solution to your problem wouldn't be nerfing smn, or any other job. But making other BPs useful.
What if whm coudn't target players outside their own party?
One solution would be adjusting the baylds gain so buffs BP, still hitting all players, would give significant baylds. I would leave healing duty to mages.

It's not nerfing the job. It's correcting an exception in an event. It effects SMN no where else in the game. SMN can target players outside their party with any number of spells from their support job. I've said this several times. They can still BP their party and spot heal with Cure 4. The same restrictions anyone else would and does have.

[RAIST]

So you're saying that since the expansion came out, SMN is no longer neglected and reigns supreme. Got it.

No, I'm saying that the issue at hand here is SoA content, not the others. If you take out SMN's usefulness, you may virtually remove it from an important portion of the content. See my last post. In some ways, this feature of SMN makes it WANTED in reives.

[Malphius]

here's a little irony for you.

About 2 weeks ago, I actually left SAM and got back on SMN because one wasn't present, and everyone was getting their faces eaten off.

Something that doesn't appear to being considered much, even though it was touched on earlier. SMN fulfills a needed role out there BECAUSE of it's AOE buffs/heals. What happens when that is taken away? Wonder if there will be cries to reset it?

There aren't' any because there are plenty of jobs that can and do heal. Attempt to anyways.

[RAIST]

There aren't' any because there are plenty of jobs that can and do heal. Attempt to anyways.

key word there.. Attempt. What happens when there isn't enough healing and shedding of enmity and the healers die and everyone wipes?

What happens when that healer is a SMN's avatar?

What happens when it's a handful of mages?

Just saying.. need to put all this in the proper perspective.

Oh, yeah... and there are TWO SIDES to a reive. You can always go to the other side if there is too much competition for your usefulness....or go to another reive for that matter. ATM, there's tons of people doing them. Wait until it dies down, then what? lack of support in general and it becomes too much a chore for people to complete them easily enough, then what? Perhaps this is working as intended as an ounce of prevention from SE (I know.. giving them too much credit for the forethought, but who knows?).