Summoner in Colonization Reives = Broken

[Malphius]

No, I'm saying that the issue at hand here is SoA content, not the others. If you take out SMN's usefulness, you may virtually remove it from an important portion of the content. See my last post. In some ways, this feature of SMN makes it WANTED in reives.

I thought you meant that the other events were worthless now. PD is still very effective and needed in the other events. In the case that you meant they are no longer relevant because of the expansion then nor is the claim that SMN is the red headed step child. They are now raining supreme with the new expansion.

[RAIST]

I thought you meant that the other events were worthless now. PD is still very effective and needed in the other events. In the case that you meant they are no longer relevant because of the expansion then nor is the claim that SMN is the red headed step child. They are now raining supreme with the new expansion.

But, you're missing the point. If you take this feature away from SMN, you may wind up taking away it's usefulness in reives. Well, at least outside of a very limited scope of being in a party trying to take them on I guess. But, if one is putting forth that level of planning, they are more likely to take the job that is best suited for healing a party. Which jobs would they be considering for that role? SMN? I guess if nothing else is available, maybe.

So, what does the lonely SMN get for it's efforts in reives if it's not in a party?

What does nearly every other job get for it's efforts in reives if not in a party?

That's the problem. You are advocating taking away the one thing that makes them truly desirable in the new content. Having this feature doesn't lessen the desire for other jobs NEARLY as much as it would reduce the desire for SMN if it was taken away. Therfore, it actually does (in SE's twisted way) provide balance for the jobs.

Just think about it. If Garuda/Leviathin/Carbuncle are able to provide just enough healing support to sustain a reive long enough for the HP restore rewards to kick in and refill everyone, it frees up other jobs to focus on other aspects. Couple this with the fact that it is virtually the only way for a SMN to make sure they get decent rewards, while most other jobs aren't faced with that delimma (lets face it, most other jobs are considerably more durable than SMN if they are getting smacked by a mob--even BRD gets access to more durable gears at times)...than you are faced with a serious deficit if you take away the one thing that really gives the job a truly desired slot in the event.

The simple fact that a WHM can get somewhat decent rewards without focusing on healing should be evidence enough that it is NOT required that a healer gets all it's reward from curing, even if it is the one most suited for it. So, what is SMN REALLy taking away from the healer? At least there is another option for those other jobs to still perform relevant roles and get rewarded for their efforts...SMN actually pretty much IS the red-headed step-child here if you really think about it.

[Malphius]

But, you're missing the point. If you take this feature away from SMN, you may wind up taking away it's usefulness in reives. Well, at least outside of a very limited scope of being in a party trying to take them on I guess. But, if one is putting forth that level of planning, they are more likely to take the job that is best suited for healing a party. Which jobs would they be considering for that role? SMN? I guess if nothing else is available, maybe.

So, what does the lonely SMN get for it's efforts in reives if it's not in a party?

What does nearly every other job get for it's efforts in reives if not in a party?

That's the problem. You are advocating taking away the one thing that makes them truly desirable in the new content. Having this feature doesn't lessen the desire for other jobs NEARLY as much as it would reduce the desire for SMN if it was taken away. Therfore, it actually does (in SE's twisted way) provide balance for the jobs.

Just think about it. If Garuda/Leviathin/Carbuncle are able to provide just enough healing support to sustain a reive long enough for the HP restore rewards to kick in and refill everyone, it frees up other jobs to focus on other aspects. Couple this with the fact that it is virtually the only way for a SMN to make sure they get decent rewards, while most other jobs aren't faced with that delimma (lets face it, most other jobs are considerably more durable than SMN if they are getting smacked by a mob--even BRD gets access to more durable gears at times)...than you are faced with a serious deficit if you take away the one thing that really gives the job a truly desired slot in the event.

The simple fact that a WHM can get somewhat decent rewards without focusing on healing should be evidence enough that it is NOT required that a healer gets all it's reward from curing, even if it is the one most suited for it. So, what is SMN REALLy taking away from the healer? At least there is another option for those other jobs to still perform relevant roles and get rewarded for their efforts...SMN actually pretty much IS the red-headed step-child here if you really think about it.

Taking away this feature once again for the 1000th time will put SMN back on a level playing field and would make them operate exactly the way they do literally every where else in the game.

1. This is not a solo event and SMN is a buff job. Party up or fail like any other support job.

2. If you are a DD solo you get the reward of probably dying. Unless a SMN is around to spam BP's.

3. It doen't make them less useful it just makes them less all powerful. Having this feature lessens the desire not from other DD or PLD's but from the actual mages who would have come to cure but didn't because DD is better.

4. This paragraph proves my point. SMN's are able to provide healing support all on their one for the duration of a reive using an unfair advantage.

5. The simple fact that a support class job (again I never brought WHM into this, it's the same for rdm,sch,geo or bard) cannot get rewards by performing their function which by the way is why they're called "jobs" is evidence of how this is an unbalanced game mechanic.

[RAIST]

Taking away this feature once again for the 1000th time will put SMN back on a level playing field and would make them operate exactly the way they do literally every where else in the game.

1. This is not a solo event and SMN is a buff job. Party up or fail like any other support job.

2. If you are a DD solo you get the reward of probably dying. Unless a SMN is around to spam BP's.

3. It doen't make them less useful it just makes them less all powerful. Having this feature lessens the desire not from other DD or PLD's but from the actual mages who would have come to cure but didn't because DD is better.

4. This paragraph proves my point. SMN's are able to provide healing support all on their one for the duration of a reive using an unfair advantage.

5. The simple fact that a support class job (again I never brought WHM into this, it's the same for rdm,sch,geo or bard) cannot get rewards by performing their function which by the way is why they're called "jobs" is evidence of how this is an unbalanced game mechanic.

and YOU are missing the point that others have made earlier.. that SMN does NOT do well in reives without taking advantage of this feature.

So, yes, you are advocating nerfing it in a big way...quite possibly to the point of it not being worth it to go.

The jobs that are in most direct competition with it in the scope of healing can do much better on it's own than SMN when it can't fall back on the healing aspect for bigger rewards.

[Malphius]

and YOU are missing the point that others have made earlier.. that SMN does NOT do well in reives without taking advantage of this feature.

So, yes, you are advocating nerfing it in a big way...quite possibly to the point of it not being worth it to go.

The jobs that are in most direct competition with it in the scope of healing can do much better on it's own than SMN when it can't fall back on the healing aspect for bigger rewards.

Then please come out and say it, that SMN should have an unfair game mechanic working in their favor and that other support class jobs should just gtfo or lolmelee.

[RAIST]

Then please come out and say it, that SMN should have an unfair game mechanic working in their favor and that other support class jobs should just gtfo or lolmelee.

It's not unfair if it balances out the playing field.

Again, without this mechanic, SMN is virtually useless in reives for gaining XP/Bayld.

And I never said the need to GTFO or lolmelee... and by the way, a decently geared WHM is not exactly lolmelee. Granted, 1k+ hexa's pale in comparison to a 3k+ Shoha.... but considering you're using a toothpick and not a big sword, it's pretty impressive for a mage to pull off.

The point is, you can change your approach. How did Einstein put it? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You can switch up your playstyle and melee if you want. You can move to the other side. You can stop following that herd and go to another reive that's not so heavy with SMN's.

It's also not too far fetched to apply your logic to other compa\onents....PLD has an unfair advantage in lair reives and needs to be changed....BRD, SMN, RDM, and BLM shouldn't be able to keep all the mobs slept off to the side of a palm tree while everyone beats on it because people can't get any good xp off the reive.

Do you see the slope yet?

SMN is not "broken" on this event. If anything, it's more a blessing because it allows others to participate in a way that might not otherwise happen. For instance, there might not be anyone fighting the mobs--they could ust sleep everything, beat down the obstruction, ending it with virtually no rewards given at all. BECAUSE SMN can sustain the fighters like it does, it is able to be extended so everyone gets rewarded more in the long run because they are able to achieve various gols that would not be possible without people actually fighting the monsters.

[Malphius]

It's not unfair if it balances out the playing field.

Again, without this mechanic, SMN is virtually useless in reives for gaining XP/Bayld.

And I never said the need to GTFO or lolmelee... and by the way, a decently geared WHM is not exactly lolmelee. Granted, 1k+ hexa's pale in comparison to a 3k+ Shoha.... but considering you're using a toothpick and not a big sword, it's pretty impressive for a mage to pull off.

The point is, you can change your approach. How did Einstein put it? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. You can switch up your playstyle and melee if you want. You can move to the other side. You can stop following that herd and go to another reive that's not so heavy with SMN's.

It's also not too far fetched to apply your logic to other compa\onents....PLD has an unfair advantage in lair reives and needs to be changed....BRD, SMN, RDM, and BLM shouldn't be able to keep all the mobs slept off to the side of a palm tree while everyone beats on it because people can't get any good xp off the reive.

Do you see the slope yet?

SMN is not "broken" on this event. If anything, it's more a blessing because it allows others to participate in a way that might not otherwise happen. For instance, there might not be anyone fighting the mobs--they could ust sleep everything, beat down the obstruction, ending it with virtually no rewards given at all. BECAUSE SMN can sustain the fighters like it does, it is able to be extended so everyone gets rewarded more in the long run because they are able to achieve various gols that would not be possible without people actually fighting the monsters.

1. It's not leveling the playing field. It's destroying it in favor of SMN.

2. You do not know that and based off my on use of Cure 4 I find it a dubious claim. Regardless again that would be for SE to adjust as well with point gains.

3. You are saying exactly that with your argument you won't just admit it. In fact you just did just almost say it directly. Again telling a mage to melee. You've seen a 1k hexa on a root? Cause WHM sure won't last out in the open swinging at the PLD's mobs.

4. You're right for once. It's insane to try and get you to acknowledge any sort of reason. I'm going to stop.

5. PLD does not have an unfair advantage. If functions exactly the same in Reives as it does every where else in the game. BLM or BLU can sleep anything they want anywhere in the game. Again these are the standard operating mechanics of those jobs. I also would argue that trying to keep all these slept is suicide but to each his own. A well organized group could probably swing it.

6. I do see the slope. A very uphill battle to meet or even come close to performing a support job roll vs a SMN in Reives.

7. Only DD get rewarded with this broken game play mechanic. All the other mages get told to go away or melee.

You really do fail to see any of my points from anything other than someone that really likes to play SMN and anything for SMN is just.