Summoner in Colonization Reives = Broken

[Icefall]

You aren't maximizing your potential for points. It doesn't seem right to come here demanding that things be changed for other jobs if your tallies aren't as good as you'd like when you aren't doing everything possible that you could. It's not hard to get a club or staff from a previous event with fair (doesn't have to be top) stats, haste yourself, and smack the roots or nest while you cure/buff people and debuff mobs. You can use Spirit Taker to get back MP too if using staff. If all you've been doing is casting cures, you were missing out on quite a bit of points before that random SMN party came through.

And yes, telling a mage to melee is a bit obnoxious, I know. I find it annoying to do too as a fellow support/back line class (WHM, BRD, SMN), but we did it in Campaign, so its not that much different now. You just have to find a balance of doing your job while auto attacking roots/nests/mobs. You really do get better points than just performing one or the other.

This whole initial situation sounds like it was a one time thing, so I don't think its something to get this worked up about.

[Malphius]

You aren't maximizing your potential for points. It doesn't seem right to come here demanding that things be changed for other jobs if your tallies aren't as good as you'd like when you aren't doing everything possible that you could. It's not hard to get a club or staff from a previous event with fair (doesn't have to be top) stats, haste yourself, and smack the roots or nest while you cure/buff people and debuff mobs. You can use Spirit Taker to get back MP too if using staff. If all you've been doing is casting cures, you were missing out on quite a bit of points before that random SMN party came through.

And yes, telling a mage to melee is a bit obnoxious, I know. I find it annoying to do too as a fellow support/back line class (WHM, BRD, SMN), but we did it in Campaign, so its not that much different now. You just have to find a balance of doing your job while auto attacking roots/nests/mobs. You really do get better points than just performing one or the other.

This whole initial situation sounds like it was a one time thing, so I don't think its something to get this worked up about.

It could have been a one time thing, however I see it emerging as a trend very quickly. The player base is always quick to jump on the most advantageous strategies and rightfully so.

For the record I have tried meleeing the roots on WHM and it was pretty terrible. I have decent melee clubs and decent melee gear for WHM. I have tried Nuking the roots on SCH as well but this also brings in low points which is why you don't see any BLM in reives.

I would also be happy to spot cure anyone while meleeing if a barage of BP's weren't healing the entire area off one ability.

If we can't change things for SMN can we change them for everyone else? Can I curaga everyone in my area with out restriction to party?

[Raksha]

If we can't change things for SMN can we change them for everyone else? Can I curaga everyone in my area with out restriction to party?

this is what i was referring to.

[RAIST]

this is what i was referring to.

I know...but that was like 2 days ago (22nd post). Besides, that statement probably only came out because it's what others were talking about--curing outside the party, doing all you can to maximize your potential by doing other things...basically shifting the onus to balance one's scores to the player that suddenly found them self in competition for getting credits for support activities.

Despite all the alternatives out there (many presented in the thread), Malphius is still digging the heels in and calling for SMN to be nerfed in the events (129th post, late yesterday afternoon).

It's not "either put everyone else on par with SMN somehow, or restrict SMN", it seems to be all about putting the brakes on just one job in the event. That is why people refer to it as nerfing SMN for the event, because in effect that is what it will do because otherwise SMN gets pretty meh rewards without the AOE wards feature.

[Malphius]

I know...but that was like 2 days ago (22nd post). Besides, that statement probably only came out because it's what others were talking about--curing outside the party, doing all you can to maximize your potential by doing other things...basically shifting the onus to balance one's scores to the player that suddenly found them self in competition for getting credits for support activities.

Despite all the alternatives out there (many presented in the thread), Malphius is still digging the heels in and calling for SMN to be nerfed in the events (129th post, late yesterday afternoon).

It's not "either put everyone else on par with SMN somehow, or restrict SMN", it seems to be all about putting the brakes on just one job in the event. That is why people refer to it as nerfing SMN for the event, because in effect that is what it will do because otherwise SMN gets pretty meh rewards without the AOE wards feature.

Oh you're speaking for me now?

Actually I proposed Curaga because it would kill SMN's ability to make any Bayrd the way they've been doing and it would "be for the good of everyone". This of course would make the event unbalanced towards WHM so I don't want that either.

This was a subject you completely ignored. I won't speak to why when you're speaking for both of us though.

That is why people refer to it as nerfing SMN for the event, because in effect that is what it will do because otherwise SMN gets pretty meh rewards without the AOE wards feature.

Looks like your true colors are starting to show however. Not about helping others, it's about protecting your Bayld advantage.

[Rekin]

Oh you're speaking for me now?

Actually I proposed Curaga because it would kill SMN's ability to make any Bayrd the way they've been doing and it would "be for the good of everyone". This of course would make the event unbalanced towards WHM so I don't want that either.

This was a subject you completely ignored. I won't speak to why when you're speaking for both of us though.



Looks like your true colors are starting to show however. Not about helping others, it's about protecting your Bayld advantage.

You don't seem to actually care about balance. It seems to be just a pedestal for you to tear down a job that is creeping up on your territory. Maybe you should swing that club some more like some others have suggested instead of screaming nerfs. You said it yourself DDing gives more byald than healing. So do the logical and start swinging.

[RAIST]

Oh you're speaking for me now?

Actually I proposed Curaga because it would kill SMN's ability to make any Bayrd the way they've been doing and it would "be for the good of everyone". This of course would make the event unbalanced towards WHM so I don't want that either.

This was a subject you completely ignored. I won't speak to why when you're speaking for both of us though.



Looks like your true colors are starting to show however. Not about helping others, it's about protecting your Bayld advantage.

nice way to try obfuscate, but things have already been put into context. That post came right in the middle of a string of posts talking about other ways to tweak the event. I was never speaking for you...but I did quote you and directed to where they were in the thread. As I stated, it was probably posted because such a discussion was already taking place. The point is, if such a discussion had not already been taking place and already leading towards that concept, you may not have commented on it. Tweaking other content to compensate was not brought forth by you...you briefly went along with it (then fell back to blaming SMN), but it was NOT your proposed adjustment. The OP said nothing of any alternative method, and you are still stuck on the same idea---that the problem is with SMN and therefore SMN needs to be restricted. No matter how many times it is shown to you that it is not SMN alone that creates this very situation you don't like....you just keep attacking SMN as the problem.

Oh, and yes.. it is a nerf, here are a couple definitions from a quick google on the term:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf

To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game.

Why the hell did Blizzard nerf Marines' attack damage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_(video_gaming)

In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change.[1][2] The opposite of nerf is buff.

1.^ a b c Bartle, Richard (2003). Designing Virtual Worlds. New Riders. p. 305. ISBN 0-13-101816-7. "Now you're only making 40 UOC per pelt63. What do you do? Either you accept the realities of the free market or you dash off an email to the community service team screeching "Your STOOPID game NERFED snow wolves!!!"64. [...] 63 Or, if things get as bad as they did in Ultima Online, one UOC. 64 To nerf means to adjust the tangible effects of a virtual world element downward. Although nowadays it can apply to everything from skills to classes to races to spells, it's traditionally used for objects. It comes from the Nerf brand of safe-play toys. A Nerf gun does less damage than a real one."
2.^ Kaelin, Mark (2006-05-03). "Playing a MMORPG is not all fun and games, you better have the right vocabulary". Tech Republic. CBS Interactive, Inc. Retrieved 2008-12-15.

How many times must it be stated? The problem is not one job particular job. Thus, the solution is NOT to go and nerf that one job. The problem is the players that can't or otherwise won't think of anything else to do that might not only help them out, but everyone else as well. It's like you want thise reward line to be some sort of protected class. "To hell with everyone else... I want my precious healing rewards". If such a change is made as you proposed, then it would eventually follow that SMN cries even more for enhancement so they can participate. But, then there is the problem of BST being able to do the same thing SMN does...watch out... gonna have to take that from BST too. Then Waltzes will be reset to being in-party only again. And so and so and so forth.

THAT is why I keep challenging your absurd claims on this matter. It's not about whether I like SMN or not...which I admitted I do like, but FYI...I haven't been to a reive on SMN in about 2 weeks. I spent about a week on SMN, then one on SAM, and about a week on MNK. Next week, I intend to be on NIN. I've been spending a little time on each job, finding my ways with each of them. Something you haven't seemed to do very thoroughly yet. It's almost like you found out you can't succeed on one course of action with one type of job because there was one job in direct competition with you, threw your hands up in the air, and decided the problem was SMN and nothing else BUT SMN. Nevermind there may be 6 other jobs capable of and also doing the exact same thing--curing themselves and/or others for better rewards (whether that is the direct reason, or they want the reive to be successful--in the end, they get more rewards for doing it). No... that thought just never seems to sink in... it's all SMN's fault....no one else is in competition with me, just that !@#$@#$ SMN.

I'd stand up for BST in the same manner...and I almost never play mine anymore, but I have some friends who do that could be potentially impacted if their job was grossly stripped of their incentive to participate in content. Same goes for PUP (which I never even unlocked). Hence my posts in the pet job issues threads early on. It wasn't just my SMN that was affected. It was messing up my friends who I routinely do things with on their PUP and BST jobs. It isn't about SMN, it's about all jobs that are affected by the problem.

The same applies here. Support jobs aren't grossly affected by JUST SMN. They are, by the event's design, in direct competition with ALL SUPPORT JOBS, as well as other jobs that can potentially participate in those same roles even though it is not their job's primary role (ie: PLD, BLU, DNC...etc.).

It is not SMN that is the issue, it is more one of the symptoms/effects of the chosen approach(es) to the event by a select group of players. This is actually an issue that can be remedied by the PLAYERS facing problems in reives....provided they are willing to put forth the effort.