Summoner in Colonization Reives = Broken

[Ryolen]

Shattersoul is pretty damn epic lol

[Babekeke]

Try this, and enjoy.

I'm intrigued as to whether anyone else has better sets too.

[Pug]

I switched to getting Bayld on SMN from BLU for the reasons many don't seem to want to fully admit. SMN is able to achieve very high evaluations both throughout the over all fight, and the end evaluation. Often getting very high EXP evaluation totals that are well above the final Bayld eval reward.

A few people have touched on this already in various ways but its important to note why SMNs are bothering to show up:

Like any other player, we're hungry for Bayld. 100k Wildskeeper KIs, gear, augments etc. It adds up, and its allot.

And like any effecient player, I will ask myself: What job gets me the most Bayld for the time invested?

I can't deal enough damage to get a decent evaluation on BLU, when most of the people out there can double my damage output with Relic/Emp WS or even Wildskeeper weapons, the Reive object, be it roots, or rocks, die very fast.

Leaving you with less than 500exp/bayld when enough rock smashers show up and race to finish the object's destruction attempting to do the same they do 'Smash allot, and fast,' which of course many can't.

Maybe I can help with getting monsters dead?

Nope. For the same reasons Single Target, or Single Party healers get frustrated with Summoners, those of us among the 'I just don't want to stand in front of a rock and smash it DPS race' get frustrated with Paladins. I'd like to kill the monster to output some offense, and maybe generate some heals/support scores in the process. I can't survive the AoE spam that many Reive mobs have, in the heart of Paladin tanking country.

I know the 'just stand in front of object and swing crowd' loves a good Paladin that can just hold the monsters the whole Reive, but again, hey single target healers, where is the argument that only 1 player receiving any damage the whole fight leaves room for more than 1 healer/support class to make any meaningful bayld/exp?

I'm extremely happy for Paladins resurgence, and I hope people start to realize that a PLD being good, is also a strong indication that RDM should be back in the plan too.

The heart of this argument is that there needs to be a better way for all jobs to be evaluated on their participation in the event. Not just those geared enough for peak performance, be it Taking Damage, Dealing Damage, or Multi-Target event wide Heals from a Summoner.

[Raksha]

Any DD with a -DT set and /DNC can solo a mob (or two).

[Malphius]

Ugh just give the op a yes or no and he might just quit belly aching. Though I highly doubt it

He won't give a yes or no answer because he's trying to say yes and no at the same time. Just look at the context of those few posts.

[Malphius]

I switched to getting Bayld on SMN from BLU for the reasons many don't seem to want to fully admit. SMN is able to achieve very high evaluations both throughout the over all fight, and the end evaluation. Often getting very high EXP evaluation totals that are well above the final Bayld eval reward.

A few people have touched on this already in various ways but its important to note why SMNs are bothering to show up:

Like any other player, we're hungry for Bayld. 100k Wildskeeper KIs, gear, augments etc. It adds up, and its allot.

And like any effecient player, I will ask myself: What job gets me the most Bayld for the time invested?

I can't deal enough damage to get a decent evaluation on BLU, when most of the people out there can double my damage output with Relic/Emp WS or even Wildskeeper weapons, the Reive object, be it roots, or rocks, die very fast.

Leaving you with less than 500exp/bayld when enough rock smashers show up and race to finish the object's destruction attempting to do the same they do 'Smash allot, and fast,' which of course many can't.

Maybe I can help with getting monsters dead?

Nope. For the same reasons Single Target, or Single Party healers get frustrated with Summoners, those of us among the 'I just don't want to stand in front of a rock and smash it DPS race' get frustrated with Paladins. I'd like to kill the monster to output some offense, and maybe generate some heals/support scores in the process. I can't survive the AoE spam that many Reive mobs have, in the heart of Paladin tanking country.

I know the 'just stand in front of object and swing crowd' loves a good Paladin that can just hold the monsters the whole Reive, but again, hey single target healers, where is the argument that only 1 player receiving any damage the whole fight leaves room for more than 1 healer/support class to make any meaningful bayld/exp?

I'm extremely happy for Paladins resurgence, and I hope people start to realize that a PLD being good, is also a strong indication that RDM should be back in the plan too.

The heart of this argument is that there needs to be a better way for all jobs to be evaluated on their participation in the event. Not just those geared enough for peak performance, be it Taking Damage, Dealing Damage, or Multi-Target event wide Heals from a Summoner.

A good non-objective look. I fully agree!

[Babekeke]

I tend to go drg/rdm for reives to get the most bayld. I don't have relic/emp/mythic, but I do have a dam good +HP set, and some nice (non-NNI unfortunately) gear.

When I team up with one of the best SMNs that I know, I still come out with more than he does, so I must be doing something right. I almost exclusively avoid killing the roots, in an attempt to make the fight last slightly longer, but I know the job well, I can maximise my own damage, my pet's damage, and my pet's curing. If I get agro from 2-3 mobs, I have a fairly good -PDT set (38%).

I can get a little annoyed when my HP drops just below 50% (of max geared HP) so I hit barwhatever macro to trigger healing breath, just as someone cures me, or a whispering wind hits. Thus I wasted 6 MP and a little time, but not to worry, it's not going to affect my overall score all that much.

The point is, I have just about all jobs at 99, and 9-10 of them are geared well enough to use properly. What would be stupid of me is to go to rieves on 1 of them, find that it sucks due to whatever reason (in this case smn spamming cures to everyone ever 45 seconds) and continue to use that job but whinge about the job that's spoiling my reward.

The better option by far is to find a better job to use for reives. And if that means swapping to SMN, then so be it. If you haven't already unlocked smn for whatever reason, all the better. Then you'll find out that it's by far the hardest/most long-winded job to unlock; it's the hardest/most longwinded job to skill up; it's never really wanted for most events, except for campaign, WoE and now reives. What you wouldn't see unfortunately, is the pain that many of us went through trying to get to 75 back in the days when everyone wanted us to help them to kill Kirin, but they weren't prepared to invite us to an exp party to hit 75.

And once you get smn to 99 and maybe get it's skill capped, you can join the rest of us waiting for avatars, updates/upgrades that we keep getting promised but never see.

[RAIST]

He won't give a yes or no answer because he's trying to say yes and no at the same time. Just look at the context of those few posts.

Oh boy... guess you really are as dense as I feared...

I'm not giving a yes or no answer, because my position doesn't fit either answer. I am not against them extending cures outward from the party in the event, I just don't feel it is waranted. The more I think about it, it probably won't resolve the problem in the long run. It might satisfy some people in the short term...but it would just be a matter of time before healing got oversaturated again and we'd be right back her again. As I view it, healing rewards are fine...the problem is more that there are other categories that need enhancement (this has also been brought up by others).

The biggest problem with what this thread was/is focused on is that the problem and the solution does not lie in the healing aspect per se, but more a problem with the unfair balance across the event. DD, Healing, and DT are the kings right now. The other 7 categories are crud, and need to be brought up to par with the other 3. In theory their formulas may have been fine, but human nature did not factor into their math and the event is likely not working out as they intended it to. The losses incurred due to that oversaturation of any one categore SHOULD be potentially offset with the other 9 categories, provided one is able to get decent rewards from them instead. If they were to review this and decide to directly tweak the event categories somehow, I honestly think they would get more bang for the buck by doing things to make the other categories more rewarding. That way, everyone can freely switch roles when one is getting overrun.

I simply think if they were to do anything to directly affect rewards, it should be more about balancing the rest of the event across the board against the 3 grossly over used methods that currently reign supreme. THAT solution, I would say yes... I wholely support. What you proposed (extending AOE cure options outside party) may resolve some issues in the short term, but in the end may just put us back in the same boat, just under a different flag. So, no, I'm not adverse to them extending the AOE cure mechanism to other jobs...it could make the reives even easier to complete. But making them easier would further exacerbate an even biggger problem: the rampant locust swarm approach currently being taken to complete reives. Because of that, no, I can't say I'd be lobbying for it...but I wouldn't get upset if they allowed it.

That is another issue that needs to seriously be addressed. Sure, SE didn't want us to simply waltz in and solo/low-man the reives. I totally get that. The problem is, the event was not made to scale with a massive group participating. It should have been scaled upwards in difficulty somehow once the group reaches a certain point. Various theories could be applied here...from the simplest thing like making the obstructions regen hp like fortifications a few times before going away (efeectively making the fight longer), or directly affecting it's defences by making the mobs respawn stronger, or more of them...possibly even making a mini-boss type pop. Something...anything...when it gets to be 3 or more alliances worth of people in there, it's simply hard for a lot of people get a leg up in there at times.

There are a lot of things wrong with the reives mechanics....but healing really isn't one of them.

Still waiting on an answer to my question, by the way. Interesting how yours has been covered multiple times by multiple users, yet you still have yet to respond once to a direct question asked of you....

[RAIST]

I tend to go drg/rdm for reives to get the most bayld. I don't have relic/emp/mythic, but I do have a dam good +HP set, and some nice (non-NNI unfortunately) gear.

When I team up with one of the best SMNs that I know, I still come out with more than he does, so I must be doing something right. I almost exclusively avoid killing the roots, in an attempt to make the fight last slightly longer, but I know the job well, I can maximise my own damage, my pet's damage, and my pet's curing. If I get agro from 2-3 mobs, I have a fairly good -PDT set (38%).

I can get a little annoyed when my HP drops just below 50% (of max geared HP) so I hit barwhatever macro to trigger healing breath, just as someone cures me, or a whispering wind hits. Thus I wasted 6 MP and a little time, but not to worry, it's not going to affect my overall score all that much.

The point is, I have just about all jobs at 99, and 9-10 of them are geared well enough to use properly. What would be stupid of me is to go to rieves on 1 of them, find that it sucks due to whatever reason (in this case smn spamming cures to everyone ever 45 seconds) and continue to use that job but whinge about the job that's spoiling my reward.

The better option by far is to find a better job to use for reives. And if that means swapping to SMN, then so be it. If you haven't already unlocked smn for whatever reason, all the better. Then you'll find out that it's by far the hardest/most long-winded job to unlock; it's the hardest/most longwinded job to skill up; it's never really wanted for most events, except for campaign, WoE and now reives. What you wouldn't see unfortunately, is the pain that many of us went through trying to get to 75 back in the days when everyone wanted us to help them to kill Kirin, but they weren't prepared to invite us to an exp party to hit 75.

And once you get smn to 99 and maybe get it's skill capped, you can join the rest of us waiting for avatars, updates/upgrades that we keep getting promised but never see.

Nice try...afraid short-sightedness may be preventing the bigger picture from getting through though.

[Malphius]

Oh boy... guess you really are as dense as I feared...

I'm not giving a yes or no answer, because my position doesn't fit either answer. I am not against them extending cures outward from the party in the event, I just don't feel it is waranted. The more I think about it, it probably won't resolve the problem in the long run. It might satisfy some people in the short term...but it would just be a matter of time before healing got oversaturated again and we'd be right back her again. As I view it, healing rewards are fine...the problem is more that there are other categories that need enhancement (this has also been brought up by others).

The biggest problem with what this thread was/is focused on is that the problem and the solution does not lie in the healing aspect per se, but more a problem with the unfair balance across the event. DD, Healing, and DT are the kings right now. The other 7 categories are crud, and need to be brought up to par with the other 3. In theory their formulas may have been fine, but human nature did not factor into their math and the event is likely not working out as they intended it to. The losses incurred due to that oversaturation of any one categore SHOULD be potentially offset with the other 9 categories, provided one is able to get decent rewards from them instead. If they were to review this and decide to directly tweak the event categories somehow, I honestly think they would get more bang for the buck by doing things to make the other categories more rewarding. That way, everyone can freely switch roles when one is getting overrun.

I simply think if they were to do anything to directly affect rewards, it should be more about balancing the rest of the event across the board against the 3 grossly over used methods that currently reign supreme. THAT solution, I would say yes... I wholely support. What you proposed (extending AOE cure options outside party) may resolve some issues in the short term, but in the end may just put us back in the same boat, just under a different flag. So, no, I'm not adverse to them extending the AOE cure mechanism to other jobs...it could make the reives even easier to complete. But making them easier would further exacerbate an even biggger problem: the rampant locust swarm approach currently being taken to complete reives. Because of that, no, I can't say I'd be lobbying for it...but I wouldn't get upset if they allowed it.

That is another issue that needs to seriously be addressed. Sure, SE didn't want us to simply waltz in and solo/low-man the reives. I totally get that. The problem is, the event was not made to scale with a massive group participating. It should have been scaled upwards in difficulty somehow once the group reaches a certain point. Various theories could be applied here...from the simplest thing like making the obstructions regen hp like fortifications a few times before going away (efeectively making the fight longer), or directly affecting it's defences by making the mobs respawn stronger, or more of them...possibly even making a mini-boss type pop. Something...anything...when it gets to be 3 or more alliances worth of people in there, it's simply hard for a lot of people get a leg up in there at times.

There are a lot of things wrong with the reives mechanics....but healing really isn't one of them.

Still waiting on an answer to my question, by the way. Interesting how yours has been covered multiple times by multiple users, yet you still have yet to respond once to a direct question asked of you....

I'm dense but you're the one that can't answer a simple question yes or no. That's rich. You're trying to have your cake and eat it to.

Already answered it.

I'm not against it, but I don't think it's necessary as there is already something players can do to counter it.
There.. took off some of the extra text in the post. Think that's pretty definitive.

That implies "No" with a hint of "Maybe".

Need to look in the mirror there. Extending cure tactics to reive participants could be a fix if it was actually warranted, but as has been repeatedly mentioned here, there are things a player can do to offset the losses within the exisitng framework. Once again, I'll ask...what course of action did you take to remedy your losses when it happened to you?

Again implying "No"

I did address it. As I said, it could be a fix if it was warranted...

Strongly implying "No"

And my answer is definitive. What is so hard to understand about the words "I'm not against it"? are you confused because it has the word "against" in it, making you think that I am in fact against it? Find it hard to believe that any one above grade school reading level could misconstrue my statement.

Leaving out "But it's not warranted at this time"

Strongly implying "Yes".

I guess i'm dense but you're the one flip-flopping more than Mitt Romney. How could anyone know your position.

You said it's just addressing SMN but now that i've tried shifting focus to improving the other mages you can't give a straight answer and you say (3 times out of 4) "NO" don't do it. Don't buff the other jobs even though you yourself suggested it as well.

Really. Are you aware of what is meant by the term game element in that definition? A job or job class is a game element. An event is a game element. A weapon is a game element. There are further definitions given, all pointing to reductions--be that potency, effectiveness, even desirability. A nerf can be made to make an activity less desirable (ie: the nerfed the return for selling choco-blinkers to disuade people from selling them)

Why quote the dictionary if you're just going to go with your own definition anyways? Clearly you understand there are different kinds of game elements. Since the element is with in the Reives system and not SMN or BST it's not a job nerf. If anything i'd give you that it's an event nerf.

W T H? SMN must be exempt from what list? And I'm not saying the only way SMN can perform is by mass curing. I have been saying it is the most relevant way they can participate. I have not been the only one stating that by the way. I have stated that their offensive efforts are really low (I think "meh" was the term I used)--an argument you yourself put forth as a reason for mages NOT to melee. You asserted this even after a specific example was given, backed up by actual testing with a WHM...and a mediocre one at that. As for that hypocrosy statement....what you are claiming I have said is not hypocrosy, as it is not what I said. Down here we have a saying along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black.

Yes that's exactly what you've been saying is that SMN can only mass cure or get no rewards. When you tell me to use the list off wiki to boost my END EVALUATION reward you say it's useful, when I tell you to use it to do the same, you say it's worthless. Yep i'm still the one confused though.

Here's a good question, and I seriously want to hear your answer. Upon discovering that these SMN's were impacting your rewards from curing others in reives...what was you next course of action to try to remedy the situation?

I stopped coming on a mage job and started raping the trees/vines/rocks with everyone else.

Please try to keep your arguments short and to the point. I can't keep picking out the meaningful points from your personal feelings and insults.