Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

[detlef]

Why can't we just have it so that RMEs require doing current endgame to upgrade? Put RME back on top (or close to it) but make it so you have to do Delve and WKR to upgrade them. RME people are happy, everybody else is getting Oats, Upukirex, and other fantastic pieces of gear out of the deal.

[Demon6324236]

The problem with that is that in order to get one, say, a Relic... You have to first goto Dynamis, get all your currency and other items, then goto do trials around the world, then go back to Dyna for some specific NMs, then kill ADL a few times, then finally you are up to doing the trials for Adoulin. In the case of Emps, go kill random NMs, VNMs, then Aby NMs, then VWNMs, then finally your up to Adoulin. I think the issue is that you have to do so much back logged shit to get to Adoulin stages that it becomes an issue, and in all honestly, I understand why a lil bit.

[detlef]

That's a completely different complaint isn't it? You're saying that the issue is the difficulty/annoyance of doing old content to make an RME.

[Rustic]

Why can't we just have it so that RMEs require doing current endgame to upgrade? Put RME back on top (or close to it) but make it so you have to do Delve and WKR to upgrade them. RME people are happy, everybody else is getting Oats, Upukirex, and other fantastic pieces of gear out of the deal.

Not correct. You then have people going "RMEs with upgrades only" for new content instead, meaning that everyone and their grandma has to go through the same sadistic process of pushing through an RME weapon to get into endgame, because Adoulin gear is second-best in that scenario and item level is king- and you've just made RME upgrades the top dog.

And why the HECK are we making players jump through the massive hoops of that sort of thing any more? While you're at it, shall we get Abyssea AF "+3'd" so you can keep wearing that too and have the best armor of all, and the heck with having Adoulin relevant to begin with?

[Demon6324236]

While you're at it, shall we get Abyssea AF "+3'd" so you can keep wearing that too and have the best armor of all, and the heck with having Adoulin relevant to begin with?

Just to say, I actually hypothesize that it will end up getting +3ed. I assume AF will be +2ed in order to match Adoulin standards as the GEO & RUN AF are in power, since after all, they are talking about AF revamps, and since we know RUN & GEO will be getting Relic & Empyrean gear as well, it makes sense that if that's what they do, the others will follow suit. If so, it would also make sense on why RUN & GEO do not have AF+1, since their default AF is powerful enough to fit the standard Adoulin set, and as such, needs no further upgrade, while the other AFs are caught up to that very same standard.

[detlef]

Not correct. You then have people going "RMEs with upgrades only" for new content instead, meaning that everyone and their grandma has to go through the same sadistic process of pushing through an RME weapon to get into endgame, because Adoulin gear is second-best in that scenario and item level is king- and you've just made RME upgrades the top dog.

And why the HECK are we making players jump through the massive hoops of that sort of thing any more? While you're at it, shall we get Abyssea AF "+3'd" so you can keep wearing that too and have the best armor of all, and the heck with having Adoulin relevant to begin with?

You can preface a post with "I disagree" instead of "not correct" and come off a lot better. How is “X weapon only” any different from any period in FFXI? How is it different from Empy-only VW or Delve weapon-only plasm runs? No matter what you do, as soon as weapons of a certain class become commonplace enough for group leaders to reasonably fill the alliance, people will begin to demand them.

Also, what kind of hoops are you talking about? If you’re talking about Empy 95-99 then yes that’s unreasonable. Likewise, Mythic to 75 has been discussed to death. But relics to 99 are a reasonable long-term goal for anybody. Long term goals that can be completed on the side are the most crucial aspect missing from the game right now.

Also, the point has been made dozens of times, but legendary weapons have always been different from armor. While people expect and are prepared for armor to be obsoleted periodically, nobody could have seen Delve weapons coming. The game revolved around making these weapons for the two years prior to Adoulin.

[pretre]

Twohanded ones to a match with the top content, offhandable ones to the level of an offhand top-end weapon from the endgame of Adoulin. Bonus if the weapon in question gets to be raised multiple times to, say an ilvl 113-116, then to whatever we end up with at the end of Adoulin later. Above and beyond means -every single player has to grind old, obsolete content to be endgame material-. There needs to be a balance. RME should remain useful, but Adoulin should give similar alternatives lest we end up with people having to hammer through the entire RME cycle just to be able to play with the "big boys". Otherwise, we're sticking a sign on top content for expansions that says "Don't have RME? Screw you.".

yea I befine with this so long as the weapon went up as the top weapons did

[FaeQueenCory]

B) People like long-term building, challenges, etc. I never complained once about building RME, until SE added forefront weaps that are more powerful and are basically the SOA version of a mercenary's knife ie. a lolconquestpoints weapon. I do rieves with NQ empy 99 and miss the mobs, or hit them for puny damage, but if only i used a forefront weapon that i can build in 20 minutes, I would out-damage and out-accuracy my NQ 99empy that took like 16 months hard work to obtain. That is the problem. If people want to use SOA weaps, thats great, no complaints, hope they have fun. But why those 30-minutes-to-obtain killing weak baby mobs bayld weaps make my 99 NQ empy look totally gimp, is a gigantic FAIL by square-enix, it is a logic fail and a player-hating thing to do. And thats just forefront weaps, I'm not even starting about empy v. delve weaps time-effort & dmg/delay, which is even more brainless and seems like they actually hate people who worked hard pre SOA.

It's not that they hate the players.... it's just an.... out-of-touch oversight.
Matsui has a vision of a tiered highlevel post 99 system for Adoulin... One that I for one find very fun and rewarding... (skirmish armor augments aside... cause... screw those!)
And while this is all good and fun and all that... He overlooked the human condition: nostalgia and empathetic ties.
Why do people who make REMs feel so put off from having them become trash instantly?
It's not just "I spent 3mo on this, why does that take only 1hr!?"... it's actually more the result of having to have built those weapons.
Because those weapons took a looooooong time to make, humans' brains will associate them with the fun they have while playing the game while building them. So they form a sentimental attachment to them....
And THAT is why REM ppl got so pissed off.

it's not "you made my 3mo weapon that I worked my ass off trash by a weapon it takes 2hr to get"
it's "you made my friend that I built from nothing worthless by some cheap floozie you get for no effort".
This is what is really at the heart of the REM controversy.

And I can't say if Matsui just never took into account the human condition... or if he just didn't care...
But the update is coming soon (I think it's scheduled for the end of the month/next month's update).
Though I would rather see just the "99-2" Afterglow REMS get iLv'd (106ish maybe? actually make the 99s 103ish too.) and then introduce 3-5 more magian trials to bring them up to 120 or wherever the devs want the iLvs to cap at. EX: 99A<106> to 99A<109> to 99A<113> to 99A<120> or whatever
But don't make them some BS like 30000 somethings. Make it reasonable like the 90-99 elemental trials. (15 geodes, 40 geodes, 15 -ites. reasonably done.)
Because it's not just the whole "this weapon gives me this WS" or even "this weapon makes this weapon skill 50% more damaging"....
It's that this weapon has been my friend through the hardest things I've had to face... and I want them to be with me until the end.
(which, IMO is kinda the whole POINT of the Magian Trials that updated RMs from 75 to 99 and 99-2.)

[Rustic]

You can preface a post with "I disagree" instead of "not correct" and come off a lot better. How is “X weapon only” any different from any period in FFXI? How is it different from Empy-only VW or Delve weapon-only plasm runs? No matter what you do, as soon as weapons of a certain class become commonplace enough for group leaders to reasonably fill the alliance, people will begin to demand them.

Because X weapon should not be "weapon that takes ages to catch up to endgame in a completely different area when everything else is plasm farming and bayld". Now, if they also did AF +3 the same way, making it a similar long-term goal in such areas? We're all equal then. Equally miserable, but equal. The heavier the burden of getting what's considered "required for endgame", the worse things will become. Look at it.

Also, what kind of hoops are you talking about? If you’re talking about Empy 95-99 then yes that’s unreasonable. Likewise, Mythic to 75 has been discussed to death. But relics to 99 are a reasonable long-term goal for anybody. Long term goals that can be completed on the side are the most crucial aspect missing from the game right now.

You mean sitting there and stabbing ADL repeatedly for vials of marrow easy? Again, I'm not talking rendering RME obsolete, I'm talking making RME's useful but not -required- for endgame.

Let those who had them, update them to make them useful again. Let those that didn't NOT have to go through the same song and dance to face top content.

[Rustic]

A) Because many people have already jumped through all those hoops, only to wake up one morning to discover their RME is now gimp compared to a colonisation rieve forefront weapon you can obtain in 30 minutes fighting too-weak mobs.

"They stopped that hideous, agonizingly long process of grinding up a weapon that's good enough to do content as it's released."

"THAT SUCKS! EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO THE SAME AGONIZING GRIND!"

As for time spent as being a required investment, come back when you were busy camping Ridill before you had such wonderful things like "pop items". Clearly, because it took years for that, Ridill should have been upgraded to be superior to your mere 16-month Empy weapon, as it is a legendary weapon from the eldest of HNM's. Clearly, the endless butthurt of waiting 21-24 hours at a time to hope that Nidhogg didn't spawn instead, fighting to claim the beast amidst the hordes of darters and praying that it dropped and I got the lot was so grand an endeavor that I should wield it's constantly reinforced blade for eternity, besting all others.


What? That wouldn't be fair?

Your time spent is not an excuse to NOT make the process more efficient for those who came after.