Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

[Werewolf]

If they can't come up with a better fix than this I think I'm through with Final Fantasy XI; I'd been losing interest in the game and was hoping the new expansion would peak some interest back into it... I think it did the complete opposite.

I've been playing since the PS2 Beta, I did all the stuff pre-nerf and this whole just soured my opinion of how they run this game lately; it's not easy for me playing so long to leave... but they way things have been going lately there's no point in staying either

So long FFXI, it's been fun~
2004 - 2013

[Kitkat]

Can people please stop suggesting ways to make transferring WS aftermath etc over to our new weapons.

Do you really want your weapon to become nothing more than a mannequin's weapon.

Anything short of a base DMG increase on the REM or a nerf to Delve weapon dmg is not acceptable.

So you know, what I stated was to show what people made the weapon for initially. Unique look or not, this is the primary reason people made the weapons and if SE can't transfer all of this to the other weapons (no small undertaking I can assure you) then it would be far less troublesome to just increase the base damage of the weapon through other means rather than spend time doing something they might not be able to implement anyway. It isn't a matter that people want SE to transfer it so the weapons become useless, it is the fact that we want to set insurmountable ridges so they understand what the playerbase would deem "acceptable" if they plan to continue with this course.

Personally I'd rather they just continue with base damage increases myself, but if they continue to ignore this then it might as well be exceedingly clear what players deem acceptable in exchange for them not increasing base damage. It is called the use of ultimatums or haggling; an exchange of one for the other so long as certain requirements be met while understanding that the requirements would be exceptionally difficult in order to sway the decision in your favor.

[VoiceMemo]

As a few posters back pointed out, yes this may not have been Matsui's choice, but Tanaka's. I think the mentality shifted when Dynamis was overhauled to V2. when This was announced I was adamantly opposed to the dynamis change. Dynamis(relic weapons) in general before took way more effort to create.

You had to understand the economics of your server, to be able to accumulate enough gil for the (then 1mil, and after 500k)(I'm talking about legitimate funding, not anyone that bought gil) entrance fee for the hourglass. That was just for the entry, then you needed the manpower and the
strategies to be able to have a successful run. Success being, farming currency, killing attestation mobs, fragment mobs, knowing when to sac, mob linking/mechanics etc. It took ALOT more skill to run V1 dynamis successfully. Granted yes some leaders abused ls members by taking advantage of them for their own selfish greed. I myself ran a dynamis linkshell for a number of years, but
I view myself as an exception, as even after I finished my Gjallarhorn I remained and helped others get relic. Till this day I still do dynamis to help others achieve relic. I believe I have repaid the help to obtain my relic at least 3 times over.

After the change to dynamis v2, it put the thought into everyone's head that relic could be obtained by all. Since now the gil requirement was removed. It could be done in time just from doing dynamis.

Empyrean was the other factor that set the mentality this way. I've always been opposed to empyrean. As a relic holder who made it from V1(Gjallarhorn), I understood why other relic holders were mad when Empyrean weapons were outclassing Relics. Now with the addition of weapons that outclass the Empyrean, Empyrean holders now understand how we relic holders felt.

So in a sense SE dug it's own grave to this mentality, based on the previous changes that were made.

I believe it now comes down to SE's business model. They need to decide which will retain more players for the longest amount of time.

Whether it being the hard core players like myself, who have played this game for some 10 years now(never stopped payment during that time). Or the casual players who come and go.

For me the changes do not hit as hard as other players. I myself am a career bard. There is no new instrument, Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla are the 2 best instruments bard has atm. I don't foresee SE ever replacing either one. Much like how Aegis and Ochain are for pld. Granted these cases are unique, where it's not a weapon.

The counterpoint though is that ever time relic weapons have gotten updates for dmg or special effects, both instrument and shield have not gotten anything.

I'm still opposed to instrument and shield being treated as second class relics/emps. They are indeed just as time consuming to make as weapons are, so should we not get boots as well? I've been a long time advocate of a relic only song for Gjallarhorn.

I still am perusing mythic dagger for bard, but again I'm doing it mostly for the song duration. Mordant Rime with aftermath will be fun but I have no illusions of being top DD with it, but at least I will be able to contribute dmg greater than that of a normal bard(mandau/twashtar bard excluded) while still able to maintain all my songs due to the higher duration I'll have from Carnwenhan.

Again my case is unique due to the nature of bard. A bards job is to buff others around them NOT direct dmg. We live vicariously though others, we are the grease that makes the gears of a party run smoothly. So granted yes I don't do large damage directly, I help to contribute to the damage.

I can completely understand where the DD/Mages are coming from where the new weapons far outclass the existing (R E M)(I don't count WOE weps) weps. Something must be done, whether it be
boosting (R E M)(I don't count WOE weps) or nefing the new weps/monster stats. I personally am in favor of boosting, SE had a time when they said they were going to stop nerf adjustments, in favor of boosting those that needed the boost. I feel the giving way is better than taking away.

In either case the final decision rests with SE. They need to decide which will benefit them the most, either keeping long time players or the casual. As it seems we've gotten to the point where we can't have a balance of the two.

[xiozen]

people over reacting and should wait a few till they get back into the offices

Um...wait?! wait?! absolutely not... you react and you react swiftly and with meaning behind your reaction--assuming you care that is.

Those that have not earned a R/E/M/ should probably be the ones to "wait a few till they get back into the offices"...since they'll have absolutely nothing to lose from this "idea" that has not yet been finalized.

My call to those that have invested time, money, gil, and God only knows how many other sacrifices in their life over months or years to create an R/E/M, please do not "wait a few till they get back into the offices"...you react and you react swiftly with your responses... because silence only leads to the assumption that you are "OK" with their proposed direction.

[Kari]

Um...wait?! wait?! absolutely not... you react and you react swiftly and with meaning behind your reaction--assuming you care that is.

Those that have not earned a R/E/M/ should probably be the ones to "wait a few till they get back into the offices"...since they'll have absolutely nothing to lose from this "idea" that has not yet been finalized.

My call to those that have invested time, money, gil, and God only knows how many other sacrifices in their life over months or years to create an R/E/M, please do not "wait a few till they get back into the offices"...you react and you react swiftly with your responses... because silence only leads to the assumption that you are "OK" with their proposed direction.

SE hasn't even given concrete information on their plans, and they already know we won't settle for anything that makes RMEC useless. Your argument is bad. Relics/Empys are not freaking hard to make, and plenty of RMEC owners are going to say the same, "Just wait". It's fine to tell SE what we want and what we don't want, it's not fine for people to freak out because their items are currently outdated when they've already said updates are planned.

[Kojo]

SE hasn't even given concrete information on their plans, and they already know we won't settle for anything that makes RMEC useless. Your argument is bad. Relics/Empys are not freaking hard to make, and plenty of RMEC owners are going to say the same, "Just wait". It's fine to tell SE what we want and what we don't want, it's not fine for people to freak out because their items are currently outdated when they've already said updates are planned.

They said updates were planned and when he finally revealed their current plan, it was to trash the weapons and let us unlock the horrible WS.

[Demon6324236]

I personally am in favor of boosting, SE had a time when they said they were going to stop nerf adjustments, in favor of boosting those that needed the boost. I feel the giving way is better than taking away.

In theory that sounds nice, but in reality that is far more destructive in this case. Take for instance my Aluh Jambiya, it was a great dagger before this expansion, if they change only RMEs, or even worse, only 99RMEs, it pushes the ideal of RME or GTFO even further. I am sure I am not the only one who has hated the idea that the game moved to a standpoint where the weapon you wield means more to most people than the gear you wear with it. Specifically, I have always hated the fact people do shouts for things like VW, which is easy content now days even, and still require people to have RMEs. What I am getting at is if they make this change, it will be another reason to push out people without RMEs or these new weapons, the DMG on the new ones is insane, and if RMEs are put to that level and nothing else, then mayhem will be caused on the lower leveled weapons.

To boost the RMEs would mean they have to go back to every other weapon in the game and raise its damage, so that it scales more quickly to a higher level, at the same time it would cause them to re-balance mobs, all of this is a lot more work and in the end SE would probably end up with the game being very similar to if they had simply nerfed it. If they did not do this kind of re-balancing, either one of two things will happen.

A:Old content will become a waste of time, no one will bother with the trash gear, kind of like how no one bothers with gear between level 70 to 99 except for a few special pieces unless it is R/EX and an amazing piece of gear from that level which stands out. This route kills much of the game up to this point.

B:They would change weapons to scale better, but they would not change mobs to go with it, weapons from the AH would be able to kill the hardest of mobs with little effort. Things like Legion would become a cake walk because mobs would be so easy to kill and would die so much faster. Leveling in the old way would be completely obliterated for everyone, mobs would die much to fast, the experience to be had would be ruined. This route kills the difficulty of the game up to this point.

In the end, their best option is either nerf these weapons, or boost almost every other weapon in the game to scale up to these standards and then re-balance the entire game around it.

[Falseliberty]

Dear Matsui please return all the the glory back to relic owners, BECAUSE I'M DROWING IN THEIR TEARS

What is all this crap about hard work? let me ask you something how many Bandnaroks was there before resolution?
How many are there now? hard work my ass. The only thing people care about is that there e-peen is kinda flaccid now
Mythic owners have been a joked on since day 1, but since you spent 4 months ignoring calls from your friends to hang out at bars, get drunk and try and score tang. You wanna blame SE and not let the game evolve and stagnate.

"God only knows how many other sacrifices in their life over months or years to create an R/E/M"

You might need a guidance counselor and maybe medical help or both. ITS A VIDEO GAME

Having said all that maybe SE should let us know what plans they have in store for us ^^

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/19749/ragnarok

.... hard work indeed

[Kojo]

Dear Matsui please return all the the glory back to relic owners, BECAUSE I'M DROWING IN THERE TEARS

What is all this crap about hard work? let me ask you something how many Bandnaroks was there before resolution?
How many are there now? hard work my ass. The only thing people care about is that there e-peen is kinda flaccid now
Mythic owners have been a joked on since day 1, but since you spent 4 months ignoring calls from your friends to hang out at bars, get drunk and try and score tang. You wanna blame SE and not let the game evolve and stagnate.

"God only knows how many other sacrifices in their life over months or years to create an R/E/M"

You might need a guidance counselor and maybe medical help or both. ITS A VIDEO GAME

Having said all that maybe SE should let us know what plans they have in store for us ^^

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/19749/ragnarok

.... hard work indeed

Quite a few WAR were getting them before Resolution, Bandwagnarok began before Resolution, Resolution just made DRKs join in.

[Tace]

I did some number crunching with relics and the hidden occ deals 2x 2.5x 3x base damage rateings and useing examples such as say rag 99 @ 143 and 2.5x D proc means it hits like it is a 357 weapon with acc+40 and +16% critical rate..or you can look at apoc 2xproc of D 334 most relic weps if had full time relic proc active would destory even the new delve gear anhi's 3x proc 228 + the 145 bullet for 373 dmg and near hateless ws etc etc..now this may be too simple of an idea for SE to go with it...but making a quest so that the relic dmg procs is 100% would help make them still relevant but this is SE were talking about so take it for what you will.