Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

[Fae]

I will remain ever curious.
While my Nirvana has little to worry about, I do kinda hope for my Spharai to get a major improvement as they have been outclassed by several other non-RME options in the recent past. Quite severely to add.
As I invested a lot of time and gil in those too, I do hope my Golden Fists of PAIN will be deserving of that name again.

I'm all for balance and Spharai being great, please however don't sell SMN's only ultimate weapon that boosts avatar stats short. While it is currently best for physical pacts and flaming crush it is entirely outclassed by staves with a lot of pet mab for magic pacts, and our physical pacts outside of flaming crush on lower level targets have very hard times doing DD like damage and they were at one time SMN's best pacts. I just worry that if you say it's fine, devs might take that to heart and SMN would be left far behind indeed with these upgraded REM other jobs are getting. My fear is they don't increase the avatar aspect of nirvana much, and only increase its melee stats so I really wanted to speak up in that regard. The time and gil sink of a mythic is crazy, it should be the ultimate staff for all situations if not most but with magic burst strategies common, and flaming crush so hard to have an entire party setup for on high level content that it can be not even doable, equipping nirvana seems a solo low level thing mostly and the end game balance of SMN and where it sits could well be determined by what stats the devs put on it, so lets hope ALL jobs get a good update and are relevant with their weapons.

[Alhanelem]

hopefully they'll do something awesome with claustrum. I would settle for making the Magic Damage + applicable to avatars.

[Shirai]

I'm afraid that will always be the "Why on earth did you ever make that weapon" weapon.

[BurnNotice]

How funny would it be if heavy metal plates were supposed to drop from voidwalker nms this whole time and the developers just didn't know it was never put in.

That would hilarious but at the same time upsetting. In any case, the drop rate would had to be increase and all the items presenting a chance to drop from those voidwalker nms for anyone wanting to pursue them again.

In response to Grekumah's comment, using the login points for those items sounds good in theory, but unfortunately that will not work at all. There's been discussions on the type of items available and duration of the login campaigns that wasn't pleasant. Also, it will just aggravate the situation more. The players don't mind putting in the work to build their weapons, but you have to keep in mind that it is a lot more work and time than it needs to be. Obtaining 1500 HMPs, and 60 Riftdross/Riftcinders with the current drop rate and availability prevents us from completing our weapons.

If you can pull the numbers, you will notice there are way too many players with empyrean weapons across all servers that have not passed lvl 90 since the day they've reached. We are talking these same people who've been looking forward to upgrade their weapons for years because of the availability of items and drop rate. This is a real issue that inhabiting players to from enjoying the full environment of the game and access of items to help with our adventures and achievements in Vana'diel. Please advise the development team for a solutions to help us come closer in achieving the players goals in completing our weapons. Thank you.

PS: It would be best to implement a solution before or with the RME upgrade that is coming soon.

[Shirai]

I think you misunderstand, what I mean is that they can hardly screw Nirvana up.
By itself the weapon already is insane, any improvement only makes it more badass. Sure, there are weapons that are able to "touch" the level of Nirvana but there are none that beat it and to make such a weapon needs incredible luck or a dedicated investment you'd also put into a relic.

Spharai, like other weapons, on the other hand have been stomped and spat on and thrown aside by mere BCNM drops.

[Fae]

I think you misunderstand, what I mean is that they can hardly screw Nirvana up.
By itself the weapon already is insane, any improvement only makes it more badass. Sure, there are weapons that are able to "touch" the level of Nirvana but there are none that beat it and to make such a weapon needs incredible luck or a dedicated investment you'd also put into a relic.

Spharai, like other weapons, on the other hand have been stomped and spat on and thrown aside by mere BCNM drops.

I agree Spharai has had it far worse. I disagree with your statements on the power level and balance of Nirvana however, and did not misunderstand.

I feel it is lackluster, for all but physical pacts. Flaming Crush damage can be close with Espiritus, Keraunos or Grioavolr and for magical pacts Griovoalr > Espiritus > Keraunos > Nirvana. Now, on CLVL 125 creatures physical pacts are fine. Once you start getting higher though, not only do DD stop being used much, but mana burn parties are the norm and I hope this update can help fix that. Without a full support team for your SMN with nirvana or boosting +100 to all stats with 1 hour, you will not be doing physical pacts or utilizing your nirvana. In Escha zones you can raise that a bit higher due to vorseals but you aren't going to be doing t2 and possibly some t1 with nirvana physical pacts without good support and/or using 1 hour for +100 to all stats. You are going to be magic bursting, unless you use that bug which doesn't work for everyone so I'm not going to include it (and imo balance should never depend on some found bug and the boost you can obtain is very tiny).

Now if you disagree that's fine, but I'm going to quote a hard statement of fact here quoting a post you yourself made on another site regarding heavenly strike:

Setup 1:
BP Delay set with Nirvana, BP set with Nirvana.
1. 8058
2. 8058
3. 8058

Setup 3:
BP Delay set with Keraunos, BP set with Keraunos.
1. 8686 (Well I'll be! Let's do that again!)
2. 8686
3. 8686

It doesn't seem to me that Nirvana is merely "touched" it is surpassed. This is old info, since then SMN has had two staves come out that beat Keraunos, which in another post you claim to use on flaming crush instead of nirvana. It doesn't take nearly what it takes to make a relic to augment Keraunos, but why would you wish to? Espiritus drops a lot, and is not overly hard to obtain at all and is random augment free and the cost of getting on is very small, even free if you farm the UNM too. Griovalr while a bit tougher to get, and deals with random augs, won't break the bank like Keraunos does. So it seems to me Nirvana could easily be "screwed up" (thought I prefer to say left behind because that's what it'd do), if they don't boost the only real good physical bp staff we have when they boost the DD REM skill levels and other parts. Nirvana is already very situationally useful, it's a great use, but it isn't what I feel a mythic should be for the time sunk into it, it should be the ultimate staff, not something you put away when Teles, Kirin v2, and the Warder of Courage (Ultimate Virtue v2) and other big bads rear their ugly heads. That damage difference on magic bursts will be 3x as large, on top of that level correction has no part in magic damage, and with food and geo debuffs, any magic accuracy boon you might gain (and it is a big might as you can get a lot of magic acc on some of these pet mab staves) from nirvana is all but moot. This comparison is also using the oldest and worst case Keraunos, for Espiritus and Griovalr it is simply an even bigger issue.

I just think this case needs made, there's not a ton of SMN out there and it's faced a lot of discrimination ever since the nerf on Perfect Defense. It's finally starting to get in a good place again, if all the other REM are boosted and Nirvana is left in its very much less than satisfactory state I fear that discrimination SMN players fought so hard against will once again be the norm. So please don't say nirvana can't be left behind or doesn't need help at all, as I said you have to put it away for hard mobs. That doesn't feel like the time and effort spent making one is justified at all and unless physical damage strats become prevalent on hard content AND nirvana physical pacts can compete with magic burst damage on that same hard content then Nirvana remains a low level fun toy, not useful beyond t1 Reisenjima and that should not be the case. Of course if all that fails, SMN could fall back on their support capabilities. But oh wait, Nirvana doesn't help that either... Espiritus does with Summoning skill augment, or the new staff you can get from killing the NM you can fish up in Reisenjima.

I like mythics, I just feel they should live up to their promise as well, the ultimate weapon for the job you get them on because unlike relics, aeonics, and empyrean they only can be equipped by one job and if you're rich it's not something you can just buy into either there is a lot of questing involved. All that is as it should be, but Nirvana isn't it should be relevant for end game content one way or another. While I appreciate your input, I know you quit a while, so please don't say Nirvana's update needs no attention and is very hard to get wrong. All jobs update should get equal attention and balance the jobs they were made for and again I hope they are all good updates in that sense. I felt that case had to be made, because that update will effect not just you, but everyone who plays SMN in one way or another and there's not any bandwagoners only people passionate about the job. The bandwagon is most nuking jobs at the moment. It seems every other person in our LS is getting job points on and gearing either BLM or SCH sometimes both, and many of them have DD jobs they are passionate about but hardly get to play, and many have a back pocket GEO or WHM or both because that's what it takes to function in todays ffxi world. SMN is recognized for its 1 hour potential but nothing more. BLM and SCH will beat your burst damage because they can do it more often, and BST zerg is still superior to SMN in maybe all but a few niche situations. There's people for every job passionate about it and pushing its limits, sadly you see them using espiritus and I'm sure soon Griovoalr on the hard fight videos and clears. It's cool to see a SMN 1 hour a t1, using nirvana. Sure. You can't do that on t2 Reisenjima and not on t3 in other zones and not on anything 130 or above outside escha and magic burst strategies will never use nirvana unless it get a lot more bp dmg or it gets pet mab added to it, or both.

I think that all jobs updates should consider balance of the jobs in question, and making sure that it is really the ultimate weapon for a job (i.e. usable even in the most end game content and puts the job on an entirely other level than a player without one). Nirvana definitely hasn't fit that bill for a long time now and as you said other jobs had it worse, (though most DD with am3 up still did better than any other weapon option). I hope SE's balance and update professionals will take each REM update into consideration carefully and consider the meta game and balance of each job, as well as make these ultimate weapons actually that. All that said, I'd be somewhat a hypocrite to spotlight SMN more in this thread but it's a case I strongly feel needed to be brought to attention.

[Ghost2k4]

Without a full support team for your SMN with nirvana or boosting +100 to all stats with 1 hour, you will not be doing physical pacts or utilizing your nirvana. In Escha zones you can raise that a bit higher due to vorseals but you aren't going to be doing t2 and possibly some t1 with nirvana physical pacts without good support and/or using 1 hour for +100 to all stats. .

Uhh... I use Physical pacts even on T3s. T1s and T2s I've duoed/Trioed many times w/o ever touching Astral Flow. There is only T1/2 NMs in any of the Escha zones that I refrain from using physical on and that is more of a support and that is the tonberry which I hold out for Thunderspark to wipe his clones. No one hour needed for any of them. The mimic sucks, but still use Volt Strike for stuns and Shock Squall if he is doing Death Trap. On ffxiah I posted a picture of Flaming Crush doing capped damage into a capped damage fragmentation. The only buff going at the time was a beast roll. yes, its only a 119 in Zi'tah, but I've done capped light many times w/ 70-80k FCs in sky on T1s w/ just a SCH with me. No buffs. Astral Flow is not needed.

Anything 132 and below I can use physical pacts w/o support and have capped acc. Once 135 starts I like to have support, it just sucks trying to do it w/o, but it is doable. Again w/o AF. Honestly I can say the only time I ever seem to AF is if I use AC right after or for the random PD/altana's favor.

[Fae]

Uhh... I use Physical pacts even on T3s. T1s and T2s I've duoed/Trioed many times w/o ever touching Astral Flow. There is only T1/2 NMs in any of the Escha zones that I refrain from using physical on and that is more of a support and that is the tonberry which I hold out for Thunderspark to wipe his clones. No one hour needed for any of them. The mimic sucks, but still use Volt Strike for stuns and Shock Squall if he is doing Death Trap. On ffxiah I posted a picture of Flaming Crush doing capped damage into a capped damage fragmentation. The only buff going at the time was a beast roll. yes, its only a 119 in Zi'tah, but I've done capped light many times w/ 70-80k FCs in sky on T1s w/ just a SCH with me. No buffs. Astral Flow is not needed.

Anything 132 and below I can use physical pacts w/o support and have capped acc. Once 135 starts I like to have support, it just sucks trying to do it w/o, but it is doable. Again w/o AF. Honestly I can say the only time I ever seem to AF is if I use AC right after or for the random PD/altana's favor.

With respect, you read through my post more carefully, you'll see we don't disagree. In what was quoted I say without good support OR 1 hours. You claim to use physical pacts using support on 132+. So we don't disagree. Read further in and I clarify CL130 and Reisnejima. CL129 is t1 Reisenjima and t2 is CL135, while sky and zitah t1 are CL119 and t2 are CL125. You say you use physical pacts if you duo/trio or use support. We did 2smn and 2 sch on the t2 harpeia in Reisenjima. One SMN has nirvana the other doesn't. Flaming crush was doing less than 8k and pred claws wasn't performing well either. With the right gear heavenly strike magic bursts were doing 35k, 11k without. If you got say geo and cor, I'm sure you can kill it with nirvana. That becomes less and less true the higher you go though, and it is an uphill battle to show people it is true with as you said pictures of flaming crush 99k to 99k skillchains. You can do that on t1 zitah with minimal support without a nirvana by the way. The truth of it is that on lower level stuff, you can double 99k damage with skillchains and physical pacts, but on higher level stuff that falls off very sharply. Remember when SR came out and it took every support option in the game to make flaming crush perform on a level to compete with other setups? Volt strike takes out the need for lower mdb and magic evasion, but it's not as strong and at some point COR and GEO aren't enough to make you have enough accuracy and attack to compete at best and matter at most, on top of that level correction kicks in more and more (5% for each difference between mobs level and your avatar) until even with nirvana your damage output with physical pacts is very low. On higher level mobs, magic bursting allows you not only to need less support due to its huge increase in magic accuracy, no level correction, and utilize its 3x damage multiplier but it allows sch and geo and blm to burst as well. This is why SMN clear vids of Vir'ava, Kirin, Seiryu and other sky gods, and many other hard fights such as t3 sky when it came out or t3 reisenjima now aren't using Nirvana. Because doing so and winning if possible, is just much harder and in all likeliehood you'll just time out. For the ultimate staff for smn, it shouldn't be put away when the hardest stuff comes out and I hope you can agree. Whether the answer is adding petmab or boosting the amount of bp damage and accuracy/attack enough, it would be good to have this pinnacle staff for smn relevant on these end game mobs and it deserves as much a look at as every other REM, mythic should help you clear such content easier for its time investment, not be put away for something you can obtain in an evening with friends (Espiritus).

[Mnejing]

We are currently busy preparing for monthly updates in the run-up to April, including a version update slated for February, which will introduce new augments for Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Ergon weapons.

Source: http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

[Camate]

Greetings,

I have a bit more to add about the upcoming enhancements.

After enhancing Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons via the new upgrade path, an afterglow effect will be applied to each one.

The first reason for this is to enable future expansion of this content. The afterglow effect on weapons is tied to the completion of Trials of the Magians, and the data for these quests are stored directly on the weapon itself. This data record occupies the same space as that of the weapons’ stat expansion, and in the event you haven’t completed Trials of the Magians (i.e. have not obtained an afterglow), it would not be possible to increase the weapon stats or expand on the special properties.

The second reason is to reduce the time and resources for enhancements. When looking into enhancements for these weapons, we found that if we were to split them into two groups (those with afterglow and those without), it would require a higher amount of resources, which would cause the development time to increase. In order to avoid this from happening, we decided to adopt the current plan that we are moving forward with.

If you already have a weapon with an afterglow effect, you will have an advantage as the next phase for enhancement will be easier to accomplish. On the other hand, those that do not have an afterglow will have quite a challenge ahead of them.

The development team is working hard on adjustments so that they can implement this content, so please stay tuned for more details!