Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

[Afania]

First big comment... was about pretty much keeping consistent players... for that statement as a SALESPERSON... especially when it's on a monthly subscription; it doesn't matter if people use the game for 2 minutes per month or literally are on 24/7 all 4 weeks of the month, so whether or not your a casual player SE still makes money

Actually it does matter for MMO. If player A that's active but only play 2 hours a week and no set schedule/static, then he is less involved in this game than player B that's active and log on everyday to do event.

If you look at the numbers, they pay same $13 a month and they have same contribution, but in reality, player A isn't a stable customer, they can cancel account for any reason. I've seen players like this for years, they play on and off, doesn't care about progress. Sometimes they're just returning player missing this game, but unable to get involved due to lack of time. They don't have any static nor connection, and not involved in LS events. They can go to any other MMO if new MMO released, and never come back. And they would cancel their account to save money if they get real busy.

Most important of all, if SE going to release a harder content that requires an alliance, they will not join. They may join once or twice for fun, but they will never get involved and static with anyone because they can't and don't want to.

On the other hand, those who owns 95+ R/E/M, maybe have a mule or 2(so yes, more income for SE too), often have a static a couple of days a week. So they won't quit just that easily, even there's another new MMO.

If SE going to release more content, it's those dedicated that would go for it, not those less involved in this game, period. Because I've seen enough come and go players that never made it to +2 /empy stage and quit, nor interested in ANY newer event. Resetting gears won't appeal them, because the main purpose to reset gears is to get them to do newer/harder content, which they're not interested to begin with.

From salesperson's prospective, you want to keep dedicated players around, and try to make casual players involved, instead of just come and go.

And once all that dedicated players left, there are no reason come and go players don't come and go faster when everything gets harder.

My LS is full of come and go players, at least 90% of them are. They've been doing Abyssea since it's out, and still doing Abyssea now, because they come and go so those players are replaced every once a while.

As one of the player that doesn't come and go, I often drag them to static with me, or help them get gears, things like this sometimes get them involved in the game and less likely to come and go anymore. So out of maybe 20 come and go players, 1 stayed and joined a static, and became a more stable customer.

Say if I leave, so does every other dedicated players in same LS. Those come and go players won't have anyone to static with for any harder content, and they just come and go faster. Do you think erasing the concept of R/E/M made them stay? No. Ppl in my LS still do Abyssea and CN party, they rarely go to SoA area, ever, even after SoA release. And they certainly have no intention to deal with delve/reive NMs, nor hitting tree root for 2hr even if there are no R/E/M. They need a static to do event to stay, they need someone ask them "wanna do delve every day at 9PM?", they need a push from more dedicated players, then maybe one day when they have the resources they'd become dedicated players themselves.

And now they just likely to leave faster because even if they do have the time to become a more dedicated player, they won't find anyone to do event with, and would just ended up quitting for another game.

tl;dr

If I'm managing an MMO, I don't want players that pay $13 a months that may* cancel sub anytime they want. I want players that pay $13 a month, and often drag more friends to pay more $13 a month to play together, and I want players willing to pay more than $13 a month for mules. Paying for $13 a month but may cancel anytime just isn't what I would aim for

[Cahlum]

Can people please stop suggesting ways to make transferring WS aftermath etc over to our new weapons.

Do you really want your weapon to become nothing more than a mannequin's weapon.

Anything short of a base DMG increase on the REM or a nerf to Delve weapon dmg is not acceptable.

[Kitkat]

Can people please stop suggesting ways to make transferring WS aftermath etc over to our new weapons.

Do you really want your weapon to become nothing more than a mannequin's weapon.

Anything short of a base DMG increase on the REM or a nerf to Delve weapon dmg is not acceptable.

So you know, what I stated was to show what people made the weapon for initially. Unique look or not, this is the primary reason people made the weapons and if SE can't transfer all of this to the other weapons (no small undertaking I can assure you) then it would be far less troublesome to just increase the base damage of the weapon through other means rather than spend time doing something they might not be able to implement anyway. It isn't a matter that people want SE to transfer it so the weapons become useless, it is the fact that we want to set insurmountable ridges so they understand what the playerbase would deem "acceptable" if they plan to continue with this course.

Personally I'd rather they just continue with base damage increases myself, but if they continue to ignore this then it might as well be exceedingly clear what players deem acceptable in exchange for them not increasing base damage. It is called the use of ultimatums or haggling; an exchange of one for the other so long as certain requirements be met while understanding that the requirements would be exceptionally difficult in order to sway the decision in your favor.

[Draylo]

Why is this in the "early" stages? Shouldn't something have been thought of when these weapons were created...?

[Oakrest]

Why is this in the "early" stages? Shouldn't something have been thought of when these weapons were created...?

This is exactly why I didn't hesitate to cancel my account immediately. Just so discouraging... like no one there cares.

[Werewolf]

If they can't come up with a better fix than this I think I'm through with Final Fantasy XI; I'd been losing interest in the game and was hoping the new expansion would peak some interest back into it... I think it did the complete opposite.

I've been playing since the PS2 Beta, I did all the stuff pre-nerf and this whole just soured my opinion of how they run this game lately; it's not easy for me playing so long to leave... but they way things have been going lately there's no point in staying either

So long FFXI, it's been fun~
2004 - 2013

[VoiceMemo]

As a few posters back pointed out, yes this may not have been Matsui's choice, but Tanaka's. I think the mentality shifted when Dynamis was overhauled to V2. when This was announced I was adamantly opposed to the dynamis change. Dynamis(relic weapons) in general before took way more effort to create.

You had to understand the economics of your server, to be able to accumulate enough gil for the (then 1mil, and after 500k)(I'm talking about legitimate funding, not anyone that bought gil) entrance fee for the hourglass. That was just for the entry, then you needed the manpower and the
strategies to be able to have a successful run. Success being, farming currency, killing attestation mobs, fragment mobs, knowing when to sac, mob linking/mechanics etc. It took ALOT more skill to run V1 dynamis successfully. Granted yes some leaders abused ls members by taking advantage of them for their own selfish greed. I myself ran a dynamis linkshell for a number of years, but
I view myself as an exception, as even after I finished my Gjallarhorn I remained and helped others get relic. Till this day I still do dynamis to help others achieve relic. I believe I have repaid the help to obtain my relic at least 3 times over.

After the change to dynamis v2, it put the thought into everyone's head that relic could be obtained by all. Since now the gil requirement was removed. It could be done in time just from doing dynamis.

Empyrean was the other factor that set the mentality this way. I've always been opposed to empyrean. As a relic holder who made it from V1(Gjallarhorn), I understood why other relic holders were mad when Empyrean weapons were outclassing Relics. Now with the addition of weapons that outclass the Empyrean, Empyrean holders now understand how we relic holders felt.

So in a sense SE dug it's own grave to this mentality, based on the previous changes that were made.

I believe it now comes down to SE's business model. They need to decide which will retain more players for the longest amount of time.

Whether it being the hard core players like myself, who have played this game for some 10 years now(never stopped payment during that time). Or the casual players who come and go.

For me the changes do not hit as hard as other players. I myself am a career bard. There is no new instrument, Gjallarhorn and Daurdabla are the 2 best instruments bard has atm. I don't foresee SE ever replacing either one. Much like how Aegis and Ochain are for pld. Granted these cases are unique, where it's not a weapon.

The counterpoint though is that ever time relic weapons have gotten updates for dmg or special effects, both instrument and shield have not gotten anything.

I'm still opposed to instrument and shield being treated as second class relics/emps. They are indeed just as time consuming to make as weapons are, so should we not get boots as well? I've been a long time advocate of a relic only song for Gjallarhorn.

I still am perusing mythic dagger for bard, but again I'm doing it mostly for the song duration. Mordant Rime with aftermath will be fun but I have no illusions of being top DD with it, but at least I will be able to contribute dmg greater than that of a normal bard(mandau/twashtar bard excluded) while still able to maintain all my songs due to the higher duration I'll have from Carnwenhan.

Again my case is unique due to the nature of bard. A bards job is to buff others around them NOT direct dmg. We live vicariously though others, we are the grease that makes the gears of a party run smoothly. So granted yes I don't do large damage directly, I help to contribute to the damage.

I can completely understand where the DD/Mages are coming from where the new weapons far outclass the existing (R E M)(I don't count WOE weps) weps. Something must be done, whether it be
boosting (R E M)(I don't count WOE weps) or nefing the new weps/monster stats. I personally am in favor of boosting, SE had a time when they said they were going to stop nerf adjustments, in favor of boosting those that needed the boost. I feel the giving way is better than taking away.

In either case the final decision rests with SE. They need to decide which will benefit them the most, either keeping long time players or the casual. As it seems we've gotten to the point where we can't have a balance of the two.

[Demon6324236]

I personally am in favor of boosting, SE had a time when they said they were going to stop nerf adjustments, in favor of boosting those that needed the boost. I feel the giving way is better than taking away.

In theory that sounds nice, but in reality that is far more destructive in this case. Take for instance my Aluh Jambiya, it was a great dagger before this expansion, if they change only RMEs, or even worse, only 99RMEs, it pushes the ideal of RME or GTFO even further. I am sure I am not the only one who has hated the idea that the game moved to a standpoint where the weapon you wield means more to most people than the gear you wear with it. Specifically, I have always hated the fact people do shouts for things like VW, which is easy content now days even, and still require people to have RMEs. What I am getting at is if they make this change, it will be another reason to push out people without RMEs or these new weapons, the DMG on the new ones is insane, and if RMEs are put to that level and nothing else, then mayhem will be caused on the lower leveled weapons.

To boost the RMEs would mean they have to go back to every other weapon in the game and raise its damage, so that it scales more quickly to a higher level, at the same time it would cause them to re-balance mobs, all of this is a lot more work and in the end SE would probably end up with the game being very similar to if they had simply nerfed it. If they did not do this kind of re-balancing, either one of two things will happen.

A:Old content will become a waste of time, no one will bother with the trash gear, kind of like how no one bothers with gear between level 70 to 99 except for a few special pieces unless it is R/EX and an amazing piece of gear from that level which stands out. This route kills much of the game up to this point.

B:They would change weapons to scale better, but they would not change mobs to go with it, weapons from the AH would be able to kill the hardest of mobs with little effort. Things like Legion would become a cake walk because mobs would be so easy to kill and would die so much faster. Leveling in the old way would be completely obliterated for everyone, mobs would die much to fast, the experience to be had would be ruined. This route kills the difficulty of the game up to this point.

In the end, their best option is either nerf these weapons, or boost almost every other weapon in the game to scale up to these standards and then re-balance the entire game around it.

[VoiceMemo]

In the end, their best option is either nerf these weapons, or boost almost every other weapon in the game to scale up to these standards and then re-balance the entire game around it.

That is probably the easier way for SE to accomplish "balance" sooner, but if the weapons were designed for Delve's, the mobs in Delves will have to be adjusted too so they are beatable with current weapons, as it seems they were designed for them, so it's just a re-balance of 1 event vs many events.

This probably would have popped up, had Delves been on the test servers for us to try out before actual implementation.

[Kojo]

That is probably the easier way for SE to accomplish "balance" sooner, but if the weapons were designed for Delve's, the mobs in Delves will have to be adjusted too so they are beatable with current weapons, as it seems they were designed for them, so it's just a re-balance of 1 event vs many events.

This probably would have popped up, had Delves been on the test servers for us to try out before actual implementation.

This and This again after you edited in the Test Server bit. Personally, I don't think any full-time weapon should have this kind of damage, I assumed the final version of Apoc would be pushing 220 at the end of SoA, but Monday's update just blew my mind, not in a good way, I assure you. The new weapons weren't the only thing that bothered me, I was expecting there to be more, better stuff for RUN, but this Relic issue is more important at the moment.