Runic, (Can I have it?)

[Raksha]

The actual job that uses Runic was a Rune Knight, which was very similar to RDM far more so than PLD.

Except she could wear heavy armor. I always considered celes to be more of a PLD than anything. Although since she had native damage spells she'd be more akin to DRK.

Either way it doesnt matter. This (the op) is basically just cover for magic damage, and it'd be a PLD ability (possible rdm could get it too though, see shield mastery)

I'm betting they only read OP.

Yeah i'm at work didnt have time to read the whole thing

If you want PLD to get a new ability, then give them an AOE spell or JA that works like stone skin, but for magic damage only.

I dont particularly care about pld getting a new ability, but the way you presented runic in the op is a pld ability, not rdm.

After going back and reading the new runic ability I don't really have an opinion on it, it seems too complicated to actually get implemented.

[Seriha]

I'd be okay with the capture/release aspect of a Runic ability that did take a party member's spell, preserving all its statistical info to be released by the RDM at their discretion. So say early on in a fight you absorb a BLM's Blizzaga III, later on a darkness SC is set up with the BLM bursting the same spell and you then release the one you'd been holding. That could be a potential instant 10k if the BLM's pimp enough and a sizable chunk of any mob's HP.

Beyond that, this is kind of creeping up there on my list of disdain like the old and tired Double Cast idea. I just can't see SE giving an ability to completely negate a any mob's spell (Utsu at least fails to -agas or SCH-buffed STs), let alone at a reasonable timer. I'm quite bluntly sick of any JA having a timer greater than 3m these days, as it only perpetuates FFXI's slow combat compared to other games and feeds into the lack of diversification among jobs. Anything too short, however, and you risk multiple RDMs in an alliance basically shutting down a caster mob, which are usually defensively squishy and only a threat because of said spells.

[Merton9999]

I'm sorry to hear it. I enjoy hunting loot. The more elusive and rare the better so long as the monster in front of it is actually a challenge. Fighting hard stuff is how I have fun.

I like playing with my friends, who are all competent at the game. They would have no problem, pull any of this off. Watching things blow up is more satisfying when it's in a group and we actually had to try.

I do find Aby to be dreadfully boring, almost all of the time. But you are entitled to your opinion. If you like the simplified version, can you suggest a compromise that might be somewhere in the middle?

I'm suggesting the ability to:

• nullify enemy Nukes
• take hate for mages
• open up magic bursting without SCs
• amplify nuke damage

and you dont want it?

No need to be sorry. I liked the challenges the game posed in the first couple years, and played it non-stop. I just had my fill and moved on. I came back when easy content became the norm, and I play with the same small group too, who all did the same. We all take it extremely lightly, with a beer in one hand, and a controller in the other. At this point we have fun just watching things blow up, but no longer need or want it to be challenging.

The complications I listed could be more than handled in my pack, but none of us would have the tolerance for the coordination aspect anymore. I'm not saying I wouldn't like an uncontrolled version, just that it would end up too annoying over time for me, I'd limit it to small group use if that, and my guess is others would too.

I like the matching enspell requirement as a compromise because it's a mechanic everyone could get used to with no notifications, very little chance of unintentional absorption, and almost no potential to cure the mob. It also makes you choose between using the ability offensively or defensively, and doesn't allow a complete reflection of all the mob's spells, which otherwise could only be achieved through a terribly long recast. I would just up the damage modifier to Runic by a lot more than the RDM's MAB. In fact I'd make it so higher tiers (or even just a spell absorbed from someone other than the RDM) offered dramatically more damage than what the RDM can cast, so you have an ability that is highly valued in parties, but avoids the whining about RDM being an overpowered soloist.

[ManaKing]

No need to be sorry. I liked the challenges the game posed in the first couple years, and played it non-stop. I just had my fill and moved on. I came back when easy content became the norm, and I play with the same small group too, who all did the same. We all take it extremely lightly, with a beer in one hand, and a controller in the other. At this point we have fun just watching things blow up, but no longer need or want it to be challenging.

The complications I listed could be more than handled in my pack, but none of us would have the tolerance for the coordination aspect anymore. I'm not saying I wouldn't like an uncontrolled version, just that it would end up too annoying over time for me, I'd limit it to small group use if that, and my guess is others would too.

I like the matching enspell requirement as a compromise because it's a mechanic everyone could get used to with no notifications, very little chance of unintentional absorption, and almost no potential to cure the mob. It also makes you choose between using the ability offensively or defensively, and doesn't allow a complete reflection of all the mob's spells, which otherwise could only be achieved through a terribly long recast. I would just up the damage modifier to Runic by a lot more than the RDM's MAB. In fact I'd make it so higher tiers (or even just a spell absorbed from someone other than the RDM) offered dramatically more damage than what the RDM can cast, so you have an ability that is highly valued in parties, but avoids the whining about RDM being an overpowered soloist.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate the way you stated your opinion and gave additional insight. It is personally helpful to me to understand where you are coming from and I can agree with your rationale.

2 points sir, 2 points.

I'd be okay with the capture/release aspect of a Runic ability that did take a party member's spell, preserving all its statistical info to be released by the RDM at their discretion. So say early on in a fight you absorb a BLM's Blizzaga III, later on a darkness SC is set up with the BLM bursting the same spell and you then release the one you'd been holding. That could be a potential instant 10k if the BLM's pimp enough and a sizable chunk of any mob's HP.

Simple is better...

yeah why not. Screw the other mechanics. Catch and release wouldn't be that hard.

Anyone have any preference on delivery method other than JA?

Use it once to setup absorbing. Use it a 2nd time to release with additional MAB damage from RDM?

[Supersun]

I was thinking about it and like Seriha mentioned there is no way that SE would let you absorb the entirety of a spell on a low enough timer to make is useful.

People also tend to complain about how one of the biggest disadvantages for Rdm to melee is that he has to place himself in harms way.

Maybe runic could be instead of something about absorbing an entire spell or dumping a nuke from a party member it can be an incentive for Rdm to stay within melee range and a way to help protect the Red mage from close range damage.

Runic JT
Rdm ?? / Pld ?? / Drk ??

Reduces 10% of all magical damage received to MP.
(numbers are negotiable of course it could even be a tiered JT where the % increases)

Helps reduce damage taken by the Red Mage making the Red mage one of the safer jobs to keep close. At the same time even if he does get hurt he can use the MP absorbed by the spell to help assist those who got hit.

[Duelle]

Except she could wear heavy armor. I always considered celes to be more of a PLD than anything. Although since she had native damage spells she'd be more akin to DRK.

On a concept level, magitek knights (which is basically what Tina/Terra and Celes are) are rather close to Red Mages.

The reason Paladins have cover is because of cecil who made it a staple ability for PLDs in FFIV. Runic and Cover have nothing to do with one another. That's not even going into how one belongs to a knight and the other belongs to a magic swordsman. PLD is of the former, RDM is of the latter (refresh-whoring notwithstanding).

[Raksha]

On a concept level, magitek knights (which is basically what Tina/Terra and Celes are) are rather close to Red Mages.

The reason Paladins have cover is because of cecil who made it a staple ability for PLDs in FFIV. Runic and Cover have nothing to do with one another. That's not even going into how one belongs to a knight and the other belongs to a magic swordsman. PLD is of the former, RDM is of the latter (refresh-whoring notwithstanding).

Justify it however you like. Cover is a PLD ability because that's what tanks do. Magic cover would be the same way.

Not that some random wiki is a reliable source, but:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Celes_Chere

Celes's abilities are similar to Terra's. She has all-around high stats and equips swords, maces, some daggers, heavy armor, some hats and robes, and all shields. She also has access to female-specific equipment. Celes and Terra have almost identical equipment draws, except for the Cotton Robe, and their respective ultimate weapons in the Advance release - while Terra uses the Apocalypse, Celes wields the Save the Queen. Celes's ability is Runic, which negates the next magical ability used and heals Celes of an amount of MP equal to that ability's MP cost. As she is rescued from prison when she joins the party, Celes joins wearing only a Hair Band.

Along with Terra, Celes is the second party member to be able to learn magic without equipping Magicite. Compared to Terra, Celes' spells are more defensive in nature,and she learns more status spells while Terra learns more damaging spells. She also learns Ice element spells, contrasting with Terra's fire spells.

Anyway, i'm not gonna argue ff6 with you. The version of runic presented in the op is more PLDs flavor. Not saying that it's a bad idea or that RDM shouldn't get it or anything like that, i'm just being pragmatic. If SE implemented as in the OP it would be a PLD ability.

[Duelle]

Justify it however you like. Cover is a PLD ability because that's what tanks do. Magic cover would be the same way.

Except for the fact that FF paladins are weak in the magic department. This has always been the case, and is fine because the class still plays up to concept. RDM on the other hand is on the uphill battle, hence our discussions.

[ManaKing]

I was thinking about it and like Seriha mentioned there is no way that SE would let you absorb the entirety of a spell on a low enough timer to make is useful.

People also tend to complain about how one of the biggest disadvantages for Rdm to melee is that he has to place himself in harms way.

Maybe runic could be instead of something about absorbing an entire spell or dumping a nuke from a party member it can be an incentive for Rdm to stay within melee range and a way to help protect the Red mage from close range damage.

Runic JT
Rdm ?? / Pld ?? / Drk ??

Reduces 10% of all magical damage received to MP.
(numbers are negotiable of course it could even be a tiered JT where the % increases)

Helps reduce damage taken by the Red Mage making the Red mage one of the safer jobs to keep close. At the same time even if he does get hurt he can use the MP absorbed by the spell to help assist those who got hit.

Are we talking about a mini MP shield or are we talking about 10% of the damage we take is instead given to us in MP?

MP Shield, No thanks.

Magic Damage taken converted to MP, Yes Please. (I would obviously like all damage converted to MP instead.)

[Raksha]

Except for the fact that FF paladins are weak in the magic department. This has always been the case, and is fine because the class still plays up to concept. RDM on the other hand is on the uphill battle, hence our discussions.

They are also weak in the tanking department, but that's neither here nor there.