On Puppetmaster, Dancer, Rune Fencer Job Abilities

[Asymptotic]

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Unlike other front-line jobs, Puppetmaster, Dancer and Rune Fencer have a focus on the repeated use of short-recast job abilities in order to maintain their intended function. Unfortunately, this becomes detrimental because of the forced delays incurred with using a job ability. To a lesser extent, dragoons are also affected so I will also address that in this thread.

There are two categories of delay:

1.) A hard delay during which no other abilities or melee attacks can be performed (1 second) - (this delay is probably fair)
2.) A soft delay in which you may execute another job ability but you cannot perform a melee attack (1 second) - (this is the one that is the major problem)

In all cases I propose the removal of the second category of delay (soft delay) from certain job abilities that are designed to be repeatedly used by these jobs (but not the first category, the hard delay) . In certain cases I provide additional suggestions based on the nature of these job abilities and suggest two new job abilities designed to alleviate the delay woes these jobs would still experience in high-haste situations where job ability forced delay is more pronounced.

On Puppetmaster:

Suggestions

• Remove the forced soft delay from the following job abilities: Maneuvers
• Increase the maximum effect duration from the following job abilities: Maneuvers (1 minute --> 3 minutes)
  
• Add a new job ability that will force the next maneuver to apply three stages of the maneuver at once. Here is my suggestion:
  
  Risky Routine: (Recast: 5 minutes) Your next maneuver will apply three maneuver effects instead of one, but the burden on your Automaton will be drastic.
  
  Notes: It would be very easy to overload an automaton using this ability, but it would allow the Puppetmaster to quickly maximize an aspect of the Automaton for a time.

On Dancer:

Suggestions

• Remove the forced soft delay from the following job abilities: Steps
• Allow appropriate job-ability specific gear/enhancements to allow the following job abilities to surpass the melee accuracy cap: Steps (appropriate gear being gear that "Increases "Steps" accuracy")
• The forced delay on Presto, Sambas, Waltzes, and Flourishes is probably a fair trade-off for their effects but opinions will differ on this.
  
• Add a new job ability that will force the next step to inflict the maximum level of daze. Here is my suggestion:
  
  Grand Jeté: (Recast: 3 minutes) Your next step will increase the daze to the maximum level but the TP cost will be tripled and will not grant finishing moves.

Note: Grand Jeté would not grant a bonus to step accuracy like Presto does. This ability is designed to allow a Dancer to contribute the maximum enfeebling effect for fast situations.

On Rune Fencer:

Suggestions

• Remove the forced soft delay from the following job abilities: Rune Enchantments

On Dragoon:

Suggestions

• Remove the forced soft delay from the following job abilities: Jump, High Jump, Spirit Jump, Super Jump, Soul Jump

These changes would remove the unfair hindrances that these classes experience based on their design. I have been relatively conservative with these suggestions.

[Alhanelem]

Add a new job ability that will force the next step to inflict the maximum level of daze. Here is my suggestion:

Grand Jeté: (Recast: 3 minutes) Your next step will increase the daze to the maximum level but the TP cost will be tripled.

This ability already exists on a smaller scale, called Presto. I think it's fine the way it is.

I'm also not sure why you feel like steps need an exemption from accuracy rules; this doesn't have anything to do with your underlying complaint about job ability delay, which i wholeheartedly agree with.

Other than what I described above, your suggestions all make sense and would be very much welcomed.

[Umichi]

i would like to just start swinging as soon as i land but i think the 1 second mele rule works well for drg because after al you are just landing after doing a jump...

[Cair]

Trying to apply real life logic to a game has never been an intelligent approach to discussion, ever. So, even disregarding the fact that you can make use of a weapon during the landing of a jump in real life, the reliance of job abilities for these jobs to function effectively being hindered by the very nature of using job abilities makes them impractical choices in so many situations.

Unbalanced, if you would.

[Asymptotic]

This ability already exists on a smaller scale, called Presto. I think it's fine the way it is.

Presto is an additional job ability to use (more aggregate delay) and serves, subtly, a different purpose completely. Presto penalizes you slightly (fewer net finishing moves) but you still require at least 1 minute and 4 JA activations to apply the maximum level of daze. In a high-haste situation, dancers have extremely low delay so the cost of doing so is extremely high. This ability provides no self-enhancing bonus (presto has +50 accuracy and +1 finishing move) but it does allow you to inflict the maximum enfeebling effect at the start of a fight some of the time. Presto is more valuable when solo or low-man because you're probably more interested in flourishes than you are in the enfeebling effects of steps.

Dancers would probably use Presto in low-haste situations where the cost of using presto and steps is low and flourishes are more valuable, and the new type of job ability that I proposed in high-haste situations where the cost of using presto and steps is quite high and flourishes are not particularly useful. I specifically only included steps (and not presto or any other job ability) in the request for delay removal since it can be argued that their benefits are "balanced" by the cost.

Notably, the duration of a daze when applied is 1 minute and increases by 30 seconds every time you apply the step again. Using the type of job ability I described would still only give you one minute of maintenance free LV5 daze. If you wished to maintain that level on a longer fight you would have to start using steps again until the recast of the job ability counts down. I set the recast of the job ability three times longer than this with this in mind.

I think to make it more clear of the purpose of the job ability, I will change it as follows:

Grand Jeté: (Recast: 3 minutes) Your next step will increase the daze to the maximum level but the TP cost will be tripled and will not grant any finishing moves.

I think this makes it more apparent that this is more of an offensive version of "No Foot Rise" designed for alliance-level content than an extended version of Presto.

I'm also not sure why you feel like steps need an exemption from accuracy rules; this doesn't have anything to do with your underlying complaint about job ability delay, which i wholeheartedly agree with.

Specifically, they should make gear with "increases steps accuracy" surpass the accuracy cap and not raw accuracy alone. Not only would it justify the stat enhancement existing in the first place (otherwise it's quite literally worthless) but it would remove the problem of "we need the dancer to inflict defense down daze for this short duration fight, oh crap their step missed." A precedent exists with Angon (it has 100% accuracy) and there are other pieces of equipment that surpass "hard caps" in other categories. The thread title is "On _____ Job abilities" so I don't necessarily exclude the other types of suggestions. These are suggestions that would overall make the jobs more enjoyable to play. I did not, however include suggestions that were not related to the nature of these Jobs' abilities.

I don't necessarily know if an ability to instantly maximize a rune would be balanced for Rune Fencer or not. Whereas Steps and Maneuvers both have an additional cost beyond their delay (TP and maneuvers), Runes have no additional cost so there was nothing to sacrifice whereas for DNC and PUP you can increase the TP cost and/or remove the benefit of finishing moves, or apply a drastic amount of instantaneous burden, respectively. Because of this concern I did not suggest an analogous job ability for Rune Fencer.

[Tennotsukai]

Idk about the other jobs, but Pup definitely requires this fix I feel.

[Alhanelem]

Presto is an additional job ability to use (more aggregate delay) and serves, subtly, a different purpose completely.

I see the point of presto as getting a step debuff to its maximum strength in a shorter period of time. If the JA delay on these abilities is removed as you say, while it is more ability activaitons it is still less time spent to max out the effect. As for the "punishment", it is offset by the time savings, and the fact that the max finishing moves is 5- one Presto step and one normal one = max finishing moves. If Presto gave 4 finishing moves, you would waste one on your next step if you waited, and would use your finishing moves to less effect if you didn't wait.

Grand Jeté: (Recast: 3 minutes) Your next step will increase the daze to the maximum level but the TP cost will be tripled and will not grant any finishing moves.

I'm not really sure I would use this, as finishing moves are an important part of the job. That said, you're also generous in only tripling the TP cost because this saves a tremendous amount of time- it should cost the same TP as the 5 steps that would normally be required.

(Please understand I totally want JA delay to die as you do- I simply would rather hold off on other adjustments that aren't needed to compensate for a delay that would have been removed if the suggestions were implemented)

[Asymptotic]

If Presto gave 4 finishing moves, you would waste one on your next step if you waited, and would use your finishing moves to less effect if you didn't wait.

Presto does give me 4 finishing moves, but it didn't really change the way I use my FMs. 3 FM reverse flourish was already enough to perform a solo-skillchain (57TP) after WS TP return + one round of attacks.

I don't think merely tripling the cost is generous since 30 TP is the minimum to apply 5 levels of daze (Presto+Step -- > Step --- >Presto + Step) and the ability is on a timer (Accession can make a single-target spell hit 6 people and merely doubles the cost for the expense of a charge). While finishing moves are important to the job in low-man situations, they're practically worthless in high-hast situations where the cost of activating a job ability is high. This is why I specified

Dancers would probably use Presto in low-haste situations where the cost of using presto and steps is low and flourishes are more valuable, and the new type of job ability that I proposed in high-haste situations where the cost of using presto and steps is quite high and flourishes are not particularly useful. I specifically only included steps (and not presto or any other job ability) in the request for delay removal since it can be argued that their benefits are "balanced" by the cost.

Enumerated, it costs more TP to use and charge a full reverse flourish (outside of No Foot Rise) after considering both the cost of the steps and the forced delays than it does to melee up the TP (this remains true even after moving the forced post-ability delay since the first half of the delay (animation delay) is unlikely to go anywhere).

[Asymptotic]

(Please understand I totally want JA delay to die as you do- I simply would rather hold off on other adjustments that aren't needed to compensate for a delay that would have been removed if the suggestions were implemented)

The DNC and PUP suggestions do take into account the removal of soft delay, but still take into account the "hard" delay of one second where no other actions are possible. If you think either of these abilities would be broken, then by all means enumerate why, but if you just wouldn't use them because you never find yourself in situations where they would be useful, that's not necessarily a reason to shoot something down.

I frequently have full haste buffs because my group almost always has a BRD, so the high-haste cost of steps and flourishes is a lot more noticeable perhaps.

[Alhanelem]

Presto does give me 4 finishing moves, but it didn't really change the way I use my FMs.

Uhm, Presto only yields 1 additional finishing move, meaning you get 3 from the step you subsequently use instead of 2.