Being a Summoner can be disheartening these days :/

[Cahlum]

I'm old enough to remember when Blood Pact was one timer...

[Alhanelem]

You sir are not intelligent. My post is obviously directed at the developers not Oki.

I demonstrated no lack of intelligence- on the other hand, you demonstrated a lack of clarity- You quoted Okipuit and then used words such as "you", which directs the statements at the person, not SE or the devs in general. If you weren't intending to offend the individual, you should have clearly written the mesage to not be directed at the individual. My inability to read your mind or assume your intentions doesn't make me unintelligent.

They NERFED summoner by capping damage so you could no longer 1 shot all lower level content.

This is news to me.

Let's see, things you didn't list:

Elemental siphon
splitting of rage/ward timers
SC along with the MB (carveat: lv70 pacts need sc ability)
Blood Boon
Mana Cede
Skillups on BP usage
Vast increase in gear which enhances pets including avatars
Abilities on support-role jobs that enhance pets including avatars
Fixes for various actual bugs and glitches over the years
Skill points over summon skill cap increasing avatar accuracy, magic accuracy, and making summon skill used more in general
BPs no longer using up timer due to being 'too far away" (BPs no longer using up timer due to enemy death supposedly coming soon)

They've fixed plenty. While I would agree with anyone who says there is a ton more they need to do, they've made a lot more changes, additions, and updates than you would care to acknowledge.

In no way am I trying to say that that they've done "enough" and that we don't need more fixes, and promised content delivered, because we do. But acting as if they've done nothing when that's not really true isn't going to be very persuasive because there is a lack of accurate information behind your anger. If you want to be effective in getting us what we want, use the facts rather than ignore them.

[Tile]

Compared to what I had to deal with while leveling Smn back during CoP, before ToaU was even added, smn is way better.

you don't have to act as Main healer anymore. really from 15-75 you pretended to be a whm
you can get skill by using blood pacts, it used to be just from the summoning
it used to be Blood Pact. and everything was under it, now we got rage and ward.
I got my main six avatars from the solo 20 cap fights, anyone else do those fights? 1/7 garuda 1/9 ramuh
no elemental Siphon for mp. if you needed MP you sat down and put on your Hmp gear

I did Love as a 40ish smn in crawler's nest while acting as main healer MB Diamond Dust at the start of a fight and doing 1k+ to the poor bug, and leveling up to get all my MP back. Breaking my own trial weapon by SC off carby and getting retribution.
learning how to control my spirits and having them spam burst on mobs was great too.

sure some new avatars would be nice but complaining about it wont do anything, its like blm crying they want a new thunder spell or something. took them over a year to give us Odin and Alex back when they said we would get them and those were just 2 hours.

[Genoxd]

Elemental siphon - Cool...

splitting of rage/ward timers - Yup I forgot to include this, too bad most BP ward are nearly worthless. None have been updated since 75. New ones are decent.

SC along with the MB - Yes and we can't do the good SCs Light/Dark for reasons that do not matter anymore. Also when was this ever relevant to the job other then messing around solo?

Blood Boon - Cool....added after we stopped having any MP issues. Honestly it was added so they could have our AF3 proc on something.

Mana Cede - lol

Skillups on BP usage - Uh you mean something that should always have been there? That does nothing for the job AT ALL. You know I always get invited to do things on SMN because ZOMG I CAN SKILL UP WHILE DOING MY JOB THAT SO BROKEN!!!`111 Oh right wait...

Vast increase in gear which enhances pets including avatars - This statement is false. We actually have very few pieces that increase our pets ability to function. In the past we just had basically none. We also actually get VERY VERY BAD gear. It just so happens that all our gear is so horrible when they add any stat for pets to any gear we're like ZOMG I WANT THAT SO BAD IT'S SO GOOD. Actually it's not that good.

Abilities on support-role jobs that enhance pets including avatars - No? This never happened lol...What game are you playing? DRG is the only job that has SJ do anything to pet.

Fixes for various actual bugs and glitches over the years - oh yes I'm sorry I should be happy that they fixed BUGs and GLITCHES in their game. Do you even read what you post? That's for sure something right?

Skill points over summon skill cap increasing avatar accuracy, magic accuracy, and making summon skill used more in general - Let me be clear: SMN skill had basically no use before this. It currently helps, yes, but that's really because the job was SO broken before that all our magic got resisted like crazy on like....everything...This honestly belongs in glitches and bugs because the fact that there was no gear and no way to increase avatar magic acc is a joke.

BPs no longer using up timer due to being 'too far away" (BPs no longer using up timer due to enemy death supposedly coming soon) - Why do you keep listing bugs and glitches as them adding things to the job? This should never exist in any way shape or form. I can't tell you how easy it is to correctly code BP usage. This goes to show how poorly this game is coded.

I know my SAM is probably around 500-600% stronger then it was at 75, if not more. My SMN however is probably about 60-100% stronger at best. Most of that increase didn't come from gear, it came from our avatars leveling up and gaining base stats and MAB. There's only so much ACC you need from skill over cap.

Now I'm excluding the new head piece and new staves from this, because if you want to include them I'm going to include the new 200+ damage weapons. At that point SMN isn't even a spec on the radar anymore.

So at 99 we have: (SMN skill, Avatar specific, and Blood boon gear don't count. Mythic not counted.)

Weapon: MAB + 13 (less then the mythic at 75)
Sub: Nothing
Range: MAB + 1
Head: MAB + 5
Neck: Regain 1/tick
Earrings: BP DMG + 3% BP delay + 5
Body: BP DMG+10%
Hands: BP DMG+ 5%
Rings: Nothing (only ifrit)
Back: MAB + 1 (with BP delay +3 just to screw us a little, cause 1 MAB is OP)
Waist: MAB + 2
Legs: BP DMG + 5% Regen +1HP/tick
Feet: MAB + 3 BP DMG +3%

Totals:
Regain +1
Regen +1
MAB+25
BP DMG + 26%

Physical BPs are even worse off. They basically Physical BPs got the equivalent of eating Meat Jerky (ATT+30 an estimate ATT bonus is somewhere in that range) and DMG+26%

My SAM got
DMG+44
fSTR cap + 5
ACC + a billion
ATT + a billion (I can hit 1-1.1k solo)
STR + 100ish
Capped haste easier from better gear
Hassozanshin
More Zanshin
Meditate boosted to 180% TP
Save TP
Conserve TP
More Store TP, 1 less hit to reach 100%
Shoha (Kaiten +40% DMG if we include relic)
More DA
More TA
QA
fTP belts
SC DMG Boost
SC DMG boost ability
TP Bonus ability that also gives me 40 TP after WS
Hasso Increased stats
Enhanced Seigan (counter+)
Enhanced Hasso (haste+)
WS DMG +7% (10 if you use Ogiers for some WSs)

I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton of things.

tl;dr? lol you're funny. Please go away now. Don't let the devs think anything they've done to summoner is enough or ok.

Edit: Some people found the leg pieces I was missing! Ngen is the superior piece so adding it to the list~

[Demon6324236]

tl;dr? lol you're funny. Please go away now. Don't let the devs think anything they've done to summoner is enough or ok.

In no way am I trying to say that that they've done "enough" and that we don't need more fixes, and promised content delivered, because we do. But acting as if they've done nothing when that's not really true isn't going to be very persuasive because there is a lack of accurate information behind your anger. If you want to be effective in getting us what we want, use the facts rather than ignore them.

Read before quote.

[Mokeil]

sure some new avatars would be nice but complaining about it wont do anything, its like blm crying they want a new thunder spell or something. took them over a year to give us Odin and Alex back when they said we would get them and those were just 2 hours.

Truthfully, I'd much rather they sort out the existing problems with our job before getting us those new avatars. The point remains, however, that the continued absence of them represents a high profile, broken promise to us. There is, so far as we know, no work being done to fulfill this promise, either - it has, in fact, been put on hold for more important things.

Then, in light of this broken promise, we're told that there are undefined plans (with no time frame for implementation) that will do... something. That is the part that has me angry. We need - and I dare to say: deserve - something more substantial than vague promises to satisfy us at this point.

Now, if you'll excuse me, the other parts of your post have gotten me all nostalgic, and I need to go start a "Hey, remember when..." conversation with my LS mates...

[Umisame]

While we can't give a specific time frame, please rest assured that the development team is receiving your feedback and they do have plans to adjust avatars.

Thank you to reply thread, we need more info, we need to know if there is going to be a change soon or if we have to wait 1 year(or 10 more) to see a good change on smn. A good change isn't to add 2 avatars, SE needs to increase smn power, avatars power.

Bst/drg/pup needs a fix to their pets but smn needs a greater boost. Smn is the only pet job that is not melee, is a mage, our avatars are all our strength and they hit slow/low and we can only use BP every 45 seconds when other jobs can spam their ws.

All pets should get buffs(songs/rolls/geo/indi/warcry/etc), bst/drg/pup pets could get like 40-70% effect and smn avatars a 100%, we are not going to melee for party/alliance situations.

[Imakun]

I find it amusing that they have no idea of what to do with Summoner. Or any other mage for that matter.
They are so afraid of overpowering them that they'd rather let them agonize and buff SAM or whatever other melee class (that is not THF or DRG, as far as I can tell) hoping that everyone will eventually jump on the bandwagon and forget about them altogether.
But then they throw at us events that need magical damage and support and it's all good and dandy until you find out all the rewards heavily favor melee classes while you walk away with +MAB for your BRD.

They seriously need to put their brains together and think about the situation of magic at this stage of the game's life. Even the simple fact that we have never had magic-specific food, let alone pet-specific food, except for HMP is honestly insulting.

Yes, I am butthurt about it.

Also, if they think I'm just going to quit XI to play ARR when it comes out they are underestimating my intelligence.

[Sasaraixx]

This is news to me.

Let's see, things you didn't list:

Elemental siphon
splitting of rage/ward timers
SC along with the MB (carveat: lv70 pacts need sc ability)
Blood Boon
Mana Cede
Skillups on BP usage
Vast increase in gear which enhances pets including avatars
Abilities on support-role jobs that enhance pets including avatars
Fixes for various actual bugs and glitches over the years
Skill points over summon skill cap increasing avatar accuracy, magic accuracy, and making summon skill used more in general
BPs no longer using up timer due to being 'too far away" (BPs no longer using up timer due to enemy death supposedly coming soon)

They've fixed plenty. While I would agree with anyone who says there is a ton more they need to do, they've made a lot more changes, additions, and updates than you would care to acknowledge.

I think his initial anger is justified. Of the items you listed, only elemental siphon, the BP ward/rage timer split and not losing your timer for the mob being to far away were worth listing. The job is still seriously lacking in gear, especially if you compare it to any other mage or DD job. The SC adjustment was never terribly useful when it was first implemented and is useless now. Skill ups on BP usage was a very nice change, but it does nothing about the job's status in the game. And while we are glad they fixed bugs and glitches, that is expected. They were bugs lol I don't think we need to give special praise for fixing things that were actually broken. And COR pet rolls? IMO, that honestly isn't even worth mentioning.

I also don't think that the "skill over the cap" adjustment did nearly as much as it should have. Then we have Blood Boon and Mana Cede. Again, nice additions but fairly gimped in comparison to similar abilities for other jobs. If we add in all of the failures over the years, like the releasing of new avatars, Avatar's favor and the enmity mess we have now, I think a little anger is justified.

Now I doubt he/she *really* meant that nothing has been done over the last 9 years. At least, that is how I interpreted the post. If we want to talk about adjustments that really helped the job, it would be a very short conversation. And the last few years have been particularly frustrating. How long have we heard about Cait Sith? The BP's on the way to 99 were pretty horrible for the most part. The enmity problems and the dev teams unwillingness to listen to the player base is unacceptable. How many years have we been asking for a buff to avatar DOT or revamping avatar's favor? The only serious balance adjustment we've gotten was a nerf to Perfect Defense. Now we get a "we're thinking about fixing things, but we don't know when" message.

There are only a couple of jobs in the game that can legitimately claim to be more poorly treated than SMN, but we're still at the bottom. I think a little outrage is justified at this point. Nothing else seems to be working.

[Randnum]

SC along with the MB (carveat: lv70 pacts need sc ability)

Just noting the extreme relevance of this. On demand damage was probably the issue. That is not an issue. Let's just have all physical BP chain. Chain beautifully.