Remove the knockback attacks in Rieves

[Fishyface]

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

This is completely untrue. Not regularly having the popular opinion doesn't make me a white knight. I've agreed and disagreed with all kinds of different things- and not just for the sake of doing so. I really feel like you just need someone to pick on.

I do not blindly defend anyone or anything. I have reasoning behind every post I make. I'm really tired of being bashed just because I post a lot. All of the comments and opinions I post are genuine. I'm not here to troll, I'm not here to argue for the sake of it, I'm here because I care about the things that are being discussed and have a genuine interest in the game and it's future. If you can't accept that, then you should block list me now instead of continuing to attack me.

Apparently to not be a white knight I have to blindly join in agreeing with every SE bash thread and agreeing with every suggestion everyone makes. To do otherwise makes one a white knight apparently.

This is not a tournament fighter arena. This is a battle to colonize the wilderness. In reality there would be no hard-line battle area boundry at all. the countdown and ban is there to punish people who bail out of a Rieve- not to allow the opponents to win a battle by a referee calling "RING OUT!"

(Now, I don't see why someone would argue against the premise of this thread personally, but you don't see me attacking them or calling them a white knight just because their opinion differs from mine- I respect the fact that different people will have different opinions on issues.)

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE. I dont usually mind that but there is one thing you say that you need to stop saying, and i will explain why. I will paraphrase it because it doesn't seem like you said it this time (which is good)

"Well, they don't have to fix it"

Yes you are right they dont have to do anything. BUT heres the thing, saying "well they don't have to fix it " in 2003 is alot different from 2013. In 2003 there was hardly any alternatives to this game. You have basically ultima online, everquest, lineage and that was about it. Meaning you can get away with mechanics that arn't fun to the populace and still have a game everyone wants to play.

That is no longer the case. There are hundreds of alternatives to FFXI now. Things like bugs, improperly implemented game mechanics, and horrifying grinds can actually make someone quit and never return.

So if SE would like to keep what little insignificant amount of the market they still have these days, they need to listen to the people griping the most and get their feedback. As they usually the people who are the most fed up with the game. And in the end SE will make changes, because they have to in order to keep people playing.

Just telling people "Well, they don't have to fix it" is a very ignorant way to look at things and makes you come off as being incredibly bias.

Ok i've said what i want to say. All i'm asking you to do is think about what your actually saying and compare it how things are now. Think about how the current mmo market is and how small mistakes such as implementing a different way of communicating with players can cause an IMMENSE backlash and lose hundreds of thousands of subs in other games.

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

Peace

[saevel]

I dunno man, I get tons of heat here in the forum for being critical and pointing out what is wrong with SoA and the fact we are paying for playing a beta version. The good thing is they are pretty quick with adjusting, so maybe it will be playable and fun in a month or two at least? At the end it is up to entire player base though, they abandoned WoTG rather fast and no progress is being made in that areas. Lots of BCNM are inaccessible in WoTG due to no one doing beastmen lair. And you can't really progress in SoA without the entire faction quests being taken and advanced.

Most people see everything from a players point of view, as we all know the developers don't really play and have a different PoV. They don't want people clearing content fast, the longer the content takes to be consumed the less it costs them to create it. So all these blocks are intentional, they want to slow the player base down with needlessly complicated / broken crap. It's a fine line they gotta walk, make it too bad and the product will sink, make it too good and everyone will complain for more after they've consumed it. What they do is run basic numbers "Player will do X event Y number of times for Z average reward". They then plan their drop rates / reward requirements around how long they want that "average" player to take. Some will be faster, others will be slower, but essentially their looking at how long it takes 50% of the player base to consume something. And that is why they always make things hard initially, they knew exactly what it would do, they just wanted to buy more time.

[saevel]

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

This is incredibly important. MMO's aren't traditional boxed games, their business model is more like a service. You want entertainment, they provide you entertainment for a price. If their entertainment is unsatisfactory then you (the customer) will seek out entertainment from another service provider. A MMO's success will always be about it's entertainment value.

[Spiritreaver]

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE. I dont usually mind that but there is one thing you say that you need to stop saying, and i will explain why. I will paraphrase it because it doesn't seem like you said it this time (which is good)

"Well, they don't have to fix it"

Yes you are right they dont have to do anything. BUT heres the thing, saying "well they don't have to fix it " in 2003 is alot different from 2013. In 2003 there was hardly any alternatives to this game. You have basically ultima online, everquest, lineage and that was about it. Meaning you can get away with mechanics that arn't fun to the populace and still have a game everyone wants to play.

That is no longer the case. There are hundreds of alternatives to FFXI now. Things like bugs, improperly implemented game mechanics, and horrifying grinds can actually make someone quit and never return.

So if SE would like to keep what little insignificant amount of the market they still have these days, they need to listen to the people griping the most and get their feedback. As they usually the people who are the most fed up with the game. And in the end SE will make changes, because they have to in order to keep people playing.

Just telling people "Well, they don't have to fix it" is a very ignorant way to look at things and makes you come off as being incredibly bias.

Ok i've said what i want to say. All i'm asking you to do is think about what your actually saying and compare it how things are now. Think about how the current mmo market is and how small mistakes such as implementing a different way of communicating with players can cause an IMMENSE backlash and lose hundreds of thousands of subs in other games.

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

Peace

Wish i could like this multiple times. Well said.
---------------------------------------

On-Topic:

Its been said elsewhere and here in this thread at least once that i saw, knockback isn't the real issue. The battlefields for Reives are just too confined across the board. They are like little double funnels of death.

Double the size of the battlefields(at least) and use the old boundary lines as a corral of sorts(think of the battlefield as a tennis court with the roots being the net. The singles out-of-bounds becomes the inner bound of the battlefield and the doubles OfB is pushed way back making the battlefield larger.) that Reive mobs can't cross unless they are actively engaged with a combatant(the inner bounds are one way. Players can pull mobs over the line, but mobs can not just wander over it). Throw in some auto-rr if the player has taken time to do quests for Reive KIs while your at it.

SE makes changes like these, and quickly, and the event can be saved IMO.

[Yenecol]

Just make the time to get back in longer than 5 seconds. I was once running around, a battlefield popped right on top of me, by the time I realized what was going on, I was out of the tiny area and 5 seconds were up. Great. I once ran to what I thought was the edge to rest. Turns out I was just outside the zone - 5 seconds doesn't even give you time to get up from a crouch to get back in.

Knockback isn't the problem - 5 seconds to get back in is.

[Sfchakan]

Knockback isn't the problem - 5 seconds to get back in is.

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.

[Alhanelem]

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE.

You don't know what a white knight is, apparently. White knighting is when you blindly defend something with no real reason or backing it up. I don't do that. White knighting would be if I went around to every single negative thing anyone had to say about anything and go "NUH UH! UR STOOPID, GAME IS PERFECT!"

Also, I don't know where you're pulling this "they don't' have to fix it" stuff from. Such comments are useless without context. The only thing remotely like this I ever say is when people complain about really small stuff when there's more important things that need doing. e.g. there's some major bugs in the game and I see people with these threads attempting to divert the dev's attention from larger issues. I realize that different things are important to different people, but the devs still have to set priorities.

Defending something with a reasonable argument and without a fanboi mentality is not white knighting. Also as demonstrated by this thread and many others, I have my fair share of complaints.

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

I'm not sure where you got this from, but I don't do this at all. They do have to fix things. What do you think this thread is about? However, they have to set priorities, and we have to (okay, should be) realistic.

I shouldn't have to post something other than my actual opinion on an issue just for the sake of meeting some unknown quota of complaints or agreements with complaints in order to not be branded or labeled. These ad hominium attacks really need to stop.

As an aside: I'm tired of people acting like FFXI has to compete with WoW or the latest brand new MMO. Most of the people playing now are not that likely to be leaving this MMO for another. Most people I know of who quit an MMO they've played for many years don't play another one when they quit. your mileage may vary I suppose, but this is just what I've observed from people I've met over the years. Everquest 1 is still running. Ultima Online is still running. Runescape is still running. These games don't have huge playerbases anymore- but they don't need to have huge playerbases- as long as the game is running in the black, it will keep running. None of these games will take nor are they trying to take customers from newer games. FFXI is basically in this category now. This doesn't mean they have a license to do stupid things to upset the playerbase, of course- it's just some food for thought.

[Alhanelem]

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.

This is the main issue for me, getting KO'd *by* a knockback is what really sucks. If nothing else, the time allowed to return to the battle zone needs to be extended, at least when you die, to at least 30 seconds or so.

I sort of understand why it's so short- the mobs have to stay in the battle area so they don't want to make it too easy to "leash" monsters out of the battle zone. That said, it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

(seperate post is to disconenct the other stuff from the real topic)

[Fishyface]

You don't know what a white knight is, apparently. White knighting is when you blindly defend something with no real reason or backing it up. I don't do that. White knighting would be if I went around to every single negative thing anyone had to say about anything and go "NUH UH! UR STOOPID, GAME IS PERFECT!"

Also, I don't know where you're pulling this "they don't' have to fix it" stuff from. Such comments are useless without context. The only thing remotely like this I ever say is when people complain about really small stuff when there's more important things that need doing. e.g. there's some major bugs in the game and I see people with these threads attempting to divert the dev's attention from larger issues. I realize that different things are important to different people, but the devs still have to set priorities.

Defending something with a reasonable argument and without a fanboi mentality is not white knighting. Also as demonstrated by this thread and many others, I have my fair share of complaints.

I'm not sure where you got this from, but I don't do this at all. They do have to fix things. What do you think this thread is about? However, they have to set priorities, and we have to (okay, should be) realistic.

I shouldn't have to post something other than my actual opinion on an issue just for the sake of meeting some unknown quota of complaints or agreements with complaints in order to not be branded or labeled. These ad hominium attacks really need to stop.

As an aside: I'm tired of people acting like FFXI has to compete with WoW or the latest brand new MMO. Most of the people playing now are not that likely to be leaving this MMO for another. Most people I know of who quit an MMO they've played for many years don't play another one when they quit. your mileage may vary I suppose, but this is just what I've observed from people I've met over the years. Everquest 1 is still running. Ultima Online is still running. Runescape is still running. These games don't have huge playerbases anymore- but they don't need to have huge playerbases- as long as the game is running in the black, it will keep running. None of these games will take nor are they trying to take customers from newer games. FFXI is basically in this category now. This doesn't mean they have a license to do stupid things to upset the playerbase, of course- it's just some food for thought.

The reason alot of people are fed up with how you post is you respond what it seems like every thread out there usually disagreeing with the position. This is what is getting you attacked.

Your allowed your freedom of speech but you need to realize you dont have to actually wade into the pool on nearly every issue and state your opinion. Keep that to the things that are most important to you.

Responding to each and every small change that someone wants with a "well they dont have to fix that" is what annoys people, and brands you as a white knight.

Stop doing that and respond to only major issues with a dissenting opinion and i bet alot of those attacks stop.

I honestly wouldnt have even bothered replying to this thread at all if you kept a lower profile and didnt draw so much criticism from alot of other people on the forum.

And your defintion of white knighting is taking to the extreme, people arnt an archetype and do not 100% act a certain way. The reason you are getting called a white knight is you seem to put your 2 cents into every single problem in the game. And a large percentage of the time you are disagreeing with the OP. When in reality you dont need to respond to every thread like that.

[Alhanelem]

The reason alot of people are fed up with how you post is you respond what it seems like every thread out there usually disagreeing with the position. This is what is getting you attacked.

I don't "usually disagree." I disagree with things that i think are bad ideas or unnecessary. If someone posts a good idea or makes an intelligent comment I happily support it- and in such cases, usually with a 'Like' more than an actual comment.

And your defintion of white knighting is taking to the extreme,

No, it's not taking to an extreme. That's what white knighting is. If you're not defending something, you can't be white knighting. That's what a white knight does, hence the meaning of the phrase.

Responding to each and every small change that someone wants with a "well they dont have to fix that" is what annoys people, and brands you as a white knight.

Again you say this, but I don't actually do that.

Stop doing that and respond to only major issues with a dissenting opinion and i bet alot of those attacks stop.

In other words, I have to either not comment, or blindly agree with everything I see in order to not be branded. Got it.

Blindly agreeing is just as bad as white knighting. *You* along with everyone else here needs to stop acting as if I disagree just to disagree- this is not the case, has never been the case, and will never be the case.