Remove the knockback attacks in Rieves

[Horadrim]

Wait wait wait wait... the guy who white knights EVERYTHING SE does, is upset about something SE designed... has the world flipped upside down? (he is right though, I never thought I would say that)

...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/mfw-producti...medium/143.jpg

Grow up.
Being reasonable and supportive against a historically hyper negative community doesn't make you a white knight. The only reason that's even a term is because FFXI players are so unreasonably negative about EVERYTHING that as soon as you try to present a logically passive or hopeful position you're suddenly trying to pretend you're SE-Man Savior of the Vanadielaverse.

Over the years I've seen him here and on KI, Alhanelem has been plenty judgmental and negative when there's justification to be -- he just also has the mental capacity to be passive and patient with the development of the game.. which you'd expect (but surprisingly don't get) of anyone who's been at it for as long as I assume he has (which is likely as long as I have.)

All of that is to say, cut the BS. It is bad enough that we have to deal with SE developing and releasing content blindly without even playing the game to understand what it needs -- we don't need everyone in the community shamelessly attacking each other like it benefits ANYONE at all. I know I'm guilty of it myself, but at least I'm willing to admit that it is stupid, adolescent behavior and aspire to get past it.

If you don't have a productive response (be it for or against what someone has to say), GTFO. We don't need more drama and BS, we've got 10 years of backlog we're trudging through already.

On Topic:

I've never really liked knockback as a mechanic at all... with FFXI's dated engine it has always felt a bit trite.

[Alhanelem]

...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/mfw-producti...medium/143.jpg

Grow up.
Being reasonable and supportive against a historically hyper negative community doesn't make you a white knight. The only reason that's even a term is because FFXI players are so unreasonably negative about EVERYTHING that as soon as you try to present a logically passive or hopeful position you're suddenly trying to pretend you're SE-Man Savior of the Vanadielaverse.

Over the years I've seen him here and on KI, Alhanelem has been plenty judgmental and negative when there's justification to be -- he just also has the mental capacity to be passive and patient with the development of the game.. which you'd expect (but surprisingly don't get) of anyone who's been at it for as long as I assume he has (which is likely as long as I have.)

All of that is to say, cut the BS. It is bad enough that we have to deal with SE developing and releasing content blindly without even playing the game to understand what it needs -- we don't need everyone in the community shamelessly attacking each other like it benefits ANYONE at all. I know I'm guilty of it myself, but at least I'm willing to admit that it is stupid, adolescent behavior and aspire to get past it.

If you don't have a productive response (be it for or against what someone has to say), GTFO. We don't need more drama and BS, we've got 10 years of backlog we're trudging through already.

On Topic:

I've never really liked knockback as a mechanic at all... with FFXI's dated engine it has always felt a bit trite.

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

Sorry, but you look at the last 1000~ posts by him, every single one of them previous was blindly agreeing with and arguing against anything a player complained/posted about.

This is completely untrue. Not regularly having the popular opinion doesn't make me a white knight. I've agreed and disagreed with all kinds of different things- and not just for the sake of doing so. I really feel like you just need someone to pick on.

I do not blindly defend anyone or anything. I have reasoning behind every post I make. I'm really tired of being bashed just because I post a lot. All of the comments and opinions I post are genuine. I'm not here to troll, I'm not here to argue for the sake of it, I'm here because I care about the things that are being discussed and have a genuine interest in the game and it's future. If you can't accept that, then you should block list me now instead of continuing to attack me.

Apparently to not be a white knight I have to blindly join in agreeing with every SE bash thread and agreeing with every suggestion everyone makes. To do otherwise makes one a white knight apparently.

Knocking someone out of the assigned combat area is not a new thing, get over it.

This is not a tournament fighter arena. This is a battle to colonize the wilderness. In reality there would be no hard-line battle area boundry at all. the countdown and ban is there to punish people who bail out of a Rieve- not to allow the opponents to win a battle by a referee calling "RING OUT!"

(Now, I don't see why someone would argue against the premise of this thread personally, but you don't see me attacking them or calling them a white knight just because their opinion differs from mine- I respect the fact that different people will have different opinions on issues.)

[Karah]

(Now, I don't see why someone would argue against the premise of this thread personally)

I did agree with you, on page one, that a change indeed needs to be made, however, knockback is not the way to go about this.

FFXI has had knock back since day one in the form of Goblin Rush (as far as I can recall) they didn't just add it for Reives it's not going to change, hate to be the barer of bad news.

This is not a tournament fighter arena. This is a battle to colonize the wilderness. In reality there would be no hard-line battle area boundry at all. the countdown and ban is there to punish people who bail out of a Rieve- not to allow the opponents to win a battle by a referee calling "RING OUT!"

Basically every (non-zone-wide) event that has been added since WotG has had a boundary line. Dynamis NMs, FoV NMs, Voidwatch, Level sync even has a "range" within where it's affects work, Spheres upon gear, Aura's, even Geo itself has boundaries inherent to it's job. It's the way the game is played now, within "Arena's" that do have (Ring-outs).

It is -literally- a battle arena, the Epitome of one in fact. Where the enemies can in fact defeat you with a Ring-out.

If you are fighting on the edge of the arena, you're the moron getting support jobs killed when you die (not you specifically... but you, as part of a group apparently) and you deserve to lose credit for that Reive.

That's not to say that a strategic retreat is sometimes necessary.

[Fishyface]

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

This is completely untrue. Not regularly having the popular opinion doesn't make me a white knight. I've agreed and disagreed with all kinds of different things- and not just for the sake of doing so. I really feel like you just need someone to pick on.

I do not blindly defend anyone or anything. I have reasoning behind every post I make. I'm really tired of being bashed just because I post a lot. All of the comments and opinions I post are genuine. I'm not here to troll, I'm not here to argue for the sake of it, I'm here because I care about the things that are being discussed and have a genuine interest in the game and it's future. If you can't accept that, then you should block list me now instead of continuing to attack me.

Apparently to not be a white knight I have to blindly join in agreeing with every SE bash thread and agreeing with every suggestion everyone makes. To do otherwise makes one a white knight apparently.

This is not a tournament fighter arena. This is a battle to colonize the wilderness. In reality there would be no hard-line battle area boundry at all. the countdown and ban is there to punish people who bail out of a Rieve- not to allow the opponents to win a battle by a referee calling "RING OUT!"

(Now, I don't see why someone would argue against the premise of this thread personally, but you don't see me attacking them or calling them a white knight just because their opinion differs from mine- I respect the fact that different people will have different opinions on issues.)

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE. I dont usually mind that but there is one thing you say that you need to stop saying, and i will explain why. I will paraphrase it because it doesn't seem like you said it this time (which is good)

"Well, they don't have to fix it"

Yes you are right they dont have to do anything. BUT heres the thing, saying "well they don't have to fix it " in 2003 is alot different from 2013. In 2003 there was hardly any alternatives to this game. You have basically ultima online, everquest, lineage and that was about it. Meaning you can get away with mechanics that arn't fun to the populace and still have a game everyone wants to play.

That is no longer the case. There are hundreds of alternatives to FFXI now. Things like bugs, improperly implemented game mechanics, and horrifying grinds can actually make someone quit and never return.

So if SE would like to keep what little insignificant amount of the market they still have these days, they need to listen to the people griping the most and get their feedback. As they usually the people who are the most fed up with the game. And in the end SE will make changes, because they have to in order to keep people playing.

Just telling people "Well, they don't have to fix it" is a very ignorant way to look at things and makes you come off as being incredibly bias.

Ok i've said what i want to say. All i'm asking you to do is think about what your actually saying and compare it how things are now. Think about how the current mmo market is and how small mistakes such as implementing a different way of communicating with players can cause an IMMENSE backlash and lose hundreds of thousands of subs in other games.

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

Peace

[Spiritreaver]

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE. I dont usually mind that but there is one thing you say that you need to stop saying, and i will explain why. I will paraphrase it because it doesn't seem like you said it this time (which is good)

"Well, they don't have to fix it"

Yes you are right they dont have to do anything. BUT heres the thing, saying "well they don't have to fix it " in 2003 is alot different from 2013. In 2003 there was hardly any alternatives to this game. You have basically ultima online, everquest, lineage and that was about it. Meaning you can get away with mechanics that arn't fun to the populace and still have a game everyone wants to play.

That is no longer the case. There are hundreds of alternatives to FFXI now. Things like bugs, improperly implemented game mechanics, and horrifying grinds can actually make someone quit and never return.

So if SE would like to keep what little insignificant amount of the market they still have these days, they need to listen to the people griping the most and get their feedback. As they usually the people who are the most fed up with the game. And in the end SE will make changes, because they have to in order to keep people playing.

Just telling people "Well, they don't have to fix it" is a very ignorant way to look at things and makes you come off as being incredibly bias.

Ok i've said what i want to say. All i'm asking you to do is think about what your actually saying and compare it how things are now. Think about how the current mmo market is and how small mistakes such as implementing a different way of communicating with players can cause an IMMENSE backlash and lose hundreds of thousands of subs in other games.

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

Peace

Wish i could like this multiple times. Well said.
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On-Topic:

Its been said elsewhere and here in this thread at least once that i saw, knockback isn't the real issue. The battlefields for Reives are just too confined across the board. They are like little double funnels of death.

Double the size of the battlefields(at least) and use the old boundary lines as a corral of sorts(think of the battlefield as a tennis court with the roots being the net. The singles out-of-bounds becomes the inner bound of the battlefield and the doubles OfB is pushed way back making the battlefield larger.) that Reive mobs can't cross unless they are actively engaged with a combatant(the inner bounds are one way. Players can pull mobs over the line, but mobs can not just wander over it). Throw in some auto-rr if the player has taken time to do quests for Reive KIs while your at it.

SE makes changes like these, and quickly, and the event can be saved IMO.

[Yenecol]

Just make the time to get back in longer than 5 seconds. I was once running around, a battlefield popped right on top of me, by the time I realized what was going on, I was out of the tiny area and 5 seconds were up. Great. I once ran to what I thought was the edge to rest. Turns out I was just outside the zone - 5 seconds doesn't even give you time to get up from a crouch to get back in.

Knockback isn't the problem - 5 seconds to get back in is.

[Sfchakan]

Knockback isn't the problem - 5 seconds to get back in is.

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.

[Alhanelem]

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.

This is the main issue for me, getting KO'd *by* a knockback is what really sucks. If nothing else, the time allowed to return to the battle zone needs to be extended, at least when you die, to at least 30 seconds or so.

I sort of understand why it's so short- the mobs have to stay in the battle area so they don't want to make it too easy to "leash" monsters out of the battle zone. That said, it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

(seperate post is to disconenct the other stuff from the real topic)

[Yenecol]

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.

So the time to get back in should be enough for a person with reraise to be able to get up and walk back in. I still think the problem is 5 seconds is too short.