Why did SE lie

[Mirokumiyazaki]

Seriously guys, it's right there in the update notes in boldface.

I figured you meant something specific for RDM...

[Demon6324236]

I forgot, I always cap attack on RDM when fighting mobs... oh wait...

Let me be more specific in my sarcasm. A DC Dyna mob has roughly 435 Defense according to the spreadsheets, before the update the attack cap was 2 times that against them, which would mean 870. In full Attack TP gear which is my standard, I am running about 640 at tops, in Req gear I am running about 670 not counting the nasty penalty which puts me much lower than that. So neither of these times am I capping, now add in Dia III, -15% Defense. 435-15%=370 defense, which is then doubled to find the attack cap is 740. So again, my RDM still does not hit the cap that used to be set in place, let alone the new cap which is around 832 or so. Basically, this update did nothing for my RDM except make my melee fall even further behind that of other light DDs, yay.

[Vicious]

I figured you meant something specific for RDM...

Then you read my post wrong.

I forgot, I always cap attack on RDM when fighting mobs... oh wait...

Basically, this update did nothing for my RDM except make my melee fall even further behind that of other light DDs, yay.

Sure, if all you do is melee things solo. Now, add any job that increases party attack and/or reduces enemy defense and suddenly, it's incredibly relevant. The entire point is that 1H wielders had an artificial cap in place to limit their damage potential compared to 2H wielders, which is why nobody wanted anything but WAR DRK SAM for serious endgame applications; now, the playing field has been leveled. (Also, DRK was pretty much the only DD that was capable of capping attack against anything remotely threatening without outside help, so that's not really a good argument to use.) This is an enormous boost to RDM melee in high-buff situations, and makes it much more viable.

In other words, if you are content to continue pigeonholing your melee game to trash content, be my guest; but don't belittle how amazing this change is for those of us who understand it.

[murasakishikibu]

they have very strong tendency of keep lying.... i dont know why.

[Demon6324236]

In other words, if you are content to continue pigeonholing your melee game to trash content, be my guest; but don't belittle how amazing this change is for those of us who understand it.

No, I fully understand it, RDM still has no unique enfeebles outside of Dia III which are relevant, it still lacks the light DD gear to actually make it decent even with its self buffs. So neither its own melee is really better, or its overall use, we can make mobs defense lower, thats the same as before, but I see no extra options for my RDM to melee now than I had before. Maybe once more STR goes to attack things will looks better, I TP with +56STR so I would get another extra +14 attack from it, but this change has done basically nothing for my RDM in anything I do, even the gear is bleh.

This update helped other jobs, it helped some single handed jobs who people look at as DDs, but RDM is not one of them, for instance, THF or NIN can sub WAR, they have that big boost in attack which puts them near attack cap with little buffs. My RDM on the other hand is forced to sub NIN for great DW, has no attack buff, so I get to melee something like Qilin where I can not possibly cap attack, even with a COR and Stalwarts I think I only barely capped pre-update, and no longer cap.

[Vicious]

Based on the above post, no, you really don't understand it. I would try to explain further but I don't know how to put it in simpler terms. I apologize for my failure in this matter.

[Demon6324236]

Based on the above post, no, you really don't understand it. I would try to explain further but I don't know how to put it in simpler terms. I apologize for my failure in this matter.

Well feel free to try explaining in more detail. It sounds as though your reasoning for why this update is amazing and helpful to RDM is because we can lower the defense on mobs and are no longer stopped by a 2.0 cap instead of a 2.25 cap like 2 handed jobs. If that is the case, my response is simple, we do not have the tools to cap attack anyways so the attack ratio change helped us personally in no way at all, and on the other hand, people are more likely to bring a SCH/RDM or a WHM who can Dia II it which is only 5% weaker, and most of the time, gives you a job which is more capable at doing other duties.

When someone can come here and exlpain what amazing use this update had that I am apperently missing, please let me know, because for now it is flying right over my head it would seem.

[Vicious]

If that is the case, my response is simple, we do not have the tools to cap attack anyways so the attack ratio change helped us personally in no way at all

No job in the game can both cap attack and survive long enough to kill anything dangerous/worthwhile while solo, especially after the recent changes to the ATKEF calculations. This only occurs when you have support. Essentially, you're comparing megabuffed 2H DDs with healing support to a solo melee RDM. This is absurdly illogical.

2.00 > 2.25 makes an enormous difference in damage output. It's not going to put you on the same level as the usual heavy DD suspects, but it sure as shit will make your melee output much more worthwhile in those situations.. especially when you consider that you can still heal/nuke/buff/debuff quite well on demand, unlike dedicated DD classes.

I'm sure it's going to be tempting to counter with "Well nobody would ever invite a RDM to a party to fill that role," but that's a Catch-22. One cannot blame SE for the playerbase's aversion to change; that falls squarely on our shoulders.

[Demon6324236]

2.00 > 2.25 makes an enormous difference in damage output.

Did you misunderstand what they did here? They adjusted attack cap for single handed weapons, that is all, so unless you are in fact hitting that cap the change did absolutely nothing. As I said above, RDM can not cap attack, thus, it does nothing for RDM in a melee capacity. Now if you quoted and argued that the changes between a mobs attack and our defense made us more helpful because then DDs could cap attack more easily without offering up their defense to do so, perhaps your argument would be stronger. Instead it seems as though you are saying because they did the 2.0 to 2.25 change we are somehow much more powerful, when really we personally gained nothing from it, only other jobs who are single handed and yet can cap attack, which are are not. Its not like they gave us a 25% or 12.5% bonus to our overall damage with no strings attached, its on the condition we can buff our attack that high, which RDM lacks the ability to do.

I'm sure it's going to be tempting to counter with "Well nobody would ever invite a RDM to a party to fill that role," but that's a Catch-22. One cannot blame SE for the playerbase's aversion to change; that falls squarely on our shoulders.

I take my RDM for this use so its not really like I would say that no one would do it, but rather there are not many cases where you want to do it. If RDM were able to heal in the same way that SCH is, meaning with Regen that does it over time, it would be much more useful because you could cast a single spell and let it heal while you divert your attention elsewhere, in most cases however RDM ends up being so caught up in buffing, healing, and debuffing, that melee is hard to do, and more often than not ends up being a waste of your time. Now if RDM had a trait that let them cast and attack at the same time, perhaps RDM would get more use on the front lines, but thats a different subject completely.

[Vicious]

As I said above, RDM can not cap attack, thus, it does nothing for RDM in a melee capacity.

You clearly do not play other melee jobs. The only job that comes remotely close to capping attack on their own is DRK, which is only on weaker targets, and requires them to reduce their defense to the point that the new ATK : DEF changes kick their teeth in, which makes it a moot point. If you die before the monster does, your attack might as well be zero.

The fact that RDM cannot cap attack on its own is irrelevant, as no job can.

The only way it's possible is with buffs, which RDM is just as capable as receiving as every other job in the game. Your argument is completely invalid. As I said a few posts ago, rather presciently, I don't know how I could possibly make this any simpler to understand.

Also, on a related note.. if you're getting marches (the baseline in any high-buff situation), /NIN is ridiculously overkill. You should be using /DNC for Box Step, further increasing your contribution to the party. Hell, /WAR might even win depending on the buffs you're getting, but that'd involve more variables and math than I'm willing to crunch this late, so that's just a hypothesis.