Severe pet enmity issues post-update... Please fix today.

[Sasaraixx]

NOPE - no fixes on the enmity issues... Say goodbye to your pet jobs now lol.

Well, it is a pretty vast issue so I did not expect a fix today. I would just like a confirmation that this is indeed not what they intended for pet jobs.

[Horadrim]

If they want me to use Snarl more then they'll have to lower the timer. And SMN has no enmity dump



This is why they should test things. Especially if they have no idea how various aspects of the game are going to be impacted.

I would agree with you.

[Tannlore]

I haven't noticed anything myself since the expac, but after reading this I decided to do some testing.

Now, I soloed smn via carby kiting method waaaayyy back before any of the expansions came outt to 75. I'm quite familiar with how enmity works with my avatar and how to keep it off me. Swinging a Hverglmir around post-aftermath all the time helps reinforce how enmity works between you and your avatar.

I tried some tests with a simple carby kite method today, no favor on either... and I found the mob returning to me a few times. It didn't happen all the time, but it did happen. I did not take any actions, I did nothing but stand there. Re-summons were done from a comfortable distance. Carby would hit the mob.. for a while... and suddenly the monster would come to say hello to me. 9 years of carby kiting, this is new to me! I have not tested it since the update today.

[Asymptotic]

What? I thought enmity was broken? People were so mad that tank jobs couldn't hold hate!? Now your pets can't hold hate and mages pull hate off of melees with Hastes ... reap what you sow player base!

[Tannlore]

What? I thought enmity was broken? People were so mad that tank jobs couldn't hold hate!? Now your pets can't hold hate and mages pull hate off of melees with Hastes ... reap what you sow player base!

You know what they say about stones and glass houses....

[Asymptotic]

At first I was annoyed by the update because my mule kept taking hate off of me at the start of fights, but now it's awesome because I can equip my WHM automaton with an -enmity attachment and never have to worry about it taking hate while I watch netflix or do homework while skilling it up.

[Tannlore]

At first I was annoyed by the update because my mule kept taking hate off of me at the start of fights, but now it's awesome because I can equip my WHM automaton with an -enmity attachment and never have to worry about it taking hate while I watch netflix or do homework while skilling it up.

Well this is a good example for pup it seems. But this isn't good for smn however, esp. since they don't have any enmity transfer abilities to speak of what so ever. Not to mention, they are pretty much walking tissue papers. We NEED our pets to hold hate, that's the whole point of them for us. I'm hoping today's update fixed some of this. Guess I'll find out when I fight Medusa here in a second lol

[Pentiki]

People posting about career summoners not understanding enmity need to double-check themselves.

*SMNs soloing: Pebe above gave a great checklist for helping to keep yourself alive. It's going to take practice and patience to learn to solo these mobs. You may not be able to solo everything in the zones. SMNs should also learn about the terrain that would give them the advantage over the enemy's movement (cliffs, rocks, winding paths, etc.).

Pebe's post, while attempting to be friendly, contains no information that anyone playing summoner solo for more than 30 minutes under level 70 doesn't know.
If summoners had any armor rating to speak of, this might not be the end of the world, but they don't. The whole concept of summoner is exceedingly weak player (lowest HP and vit of any job) and a fragment of a gods power, working together. There is not a lot of room for misjudging enmity as a summoner. We get to wear cloth. We are very squishy. We have, as a group, a very good understanding of what enmity means.
Additionally, using terrain (and consequently, mob pathing logic) to avoid taking damage is considered an exploit. Using it on the small scale you suggest is unlikely to get you into serious trouble, but it is still against ToS. It's also important to note that avatars follow the same pathing logic.

Any summoner who's leveled traditionally knows how enmity works, the first 50 levels are a brutal free-for-all of summoner death, due to low skill, low avatar output, and high enmity gain by other abilities (eating a cookie, for instance)

Granted with the advent of abyssea, old style leveling isn't typical behaviour for someone wanting to play summoner, but summoner's do not solo before level 70 with any audacity (easy prey below 70 can give a summoner a run for their money, depending on gear)

Here's a simple illustration of the current state of things.

Summoning magic skill capped + merits + gear. (471)
Using Vayuvata III Avatar perpetuation staff with capped staff skill + merits. (414 skill, 57 dmg, 474 attack)
Capped Enmity- merits, enmity -1 from Hedgehog Bomb

Using Predator Claws resulting in 1700 damage (nearly 1/3 it's health) only held an easy prey Ggoblin Healer (in dagruf wadi) against my melee attacks (40-60 dmg, vs avatar 85-125 dmg) for 8 combat rounds.

Avatars have always had low enmity gain from auto-attack. Based on Square's notes, some of this is due to low attack speed. Coupling this with the change that getting hit drains enmity faster, it's a serious problem. (see notes here, for those unfamiliar: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ed-Adjustments)

I feel this situation might be exacerbated by how avatar hp is viewed by various code. (for example, Tonberry Throat Stab affects avatars as though it was calculated against the summoner's HP, rather than the avatar's HP). It seems that the enmity code for damage-volatile enmity might be calculated against the summoner's HP rather than the avatar's, causing enmity to be dumped quicker than it reasonably should.

If this remains the case summoners are going to need an armor upgrade, or worse, an ability to dump enmity like enmity douse. (not my preferred solution, personally.)

Now, for those decrying that we need to get used to it, if summoners were meant to stand in the back doing one ability every 45-60 seconds, this wouldn't indicate a problem. This is not only incredibly boring, however, but also leaves little use for a subjob. It also doesn't contribute to party play in a reasonably meaningful way (why get a summoner with upper mediocre damage, who's going to need a lot of help from tanks and healers alike, when you can have any other DD who can take a few hits?)

[Luvbunny]

Well, it is a pretty vast issue so I did not expect a fix today. I would just like a confirmation that this is indeed not what they intended for pet jobs.

They can simply revert back to pre-update. And put those sad-justment in the test server, like how they are suppose to do it in the first place, and do more testing before unleashing hell upon pet jobs players. It's quite simple really. Right now is chewing beastmaster and summoners - rendering the jobs somewhat unplayable. Not to mention - it's affecting those dual triple quadruple boxing, those nice little income SE been having by making the game easier to play. Once they start canceling their accounts, and all those so called casual corners (that most of the posters here lovingly loathe...) follow suits, we are not gonna be a happy campers.

[Asymptotic]

Using Predator Claws resulting in 1700 damage (nearly 1/3 it's health) only held an easy prey Ggoblin Healer (in dagruf wadi) against my melee attacks (40-60 dmg, vs avatar 85-125 dmg) for 8 combat rounds.

Avatars have always had low enmity gain from auto-attack. Based on Square's notes, some of this is due to low attack speed. Coupling this with the change that getting hit drains enmity faster, it's a serious problem. (see notes here, for those unfamiliar: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ed-Adjustments)

I feel this situation might be exacerbated by how avatar hp is viewed by various code. (for example, Tonberry Throat Stab affects avatars as though it was calculated against the summoner's HP, rather than the avatar's HP). It seems that the enmity code for damage-volatile enmity might be calculated against the summoner's HP rather than the avatar's, causing enmity to be dumped quicker than it reasonably should.

If this remains the case summoners are going to need an armor upgrade, or worse, an ability to dump enmity like enmity douse. (not my preferred solution, personally.)

Now, for those decrying that we need to get used to it, if summoners were meant to stand in the back doing one ability every 45-60 seconds, this wouldn't indicate a problem. This is not only incredibly boring, however, but also leaves little use for a subjob. It also doesn't contribute to party play in a reasonably meaningful way (why get a summoner with upper mediocre damage, who's going to need a lot of help from tanks and healers alike, when you can have any other DD who can take a few hits?)

So wait, your issue is your avatar can't hold hate off your melee hits?