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  1. #1
    Player Sarick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    732
    Character
    Saricks
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahamut View Post
    When I listen to you all, I see a bunch of babies who cared little that abyssea rendered tanks useless and never once did you come to tanks aid. I'm sure there are tanks right now reading this and feeling really hurt by everyone wanting thier job and caring little to even bother trying to ask them to help you out. Adapt and ask a tank to help you for once and quit your crying here in the forum. The producer already said they did not intend for melee and casters to have emmity maxed equal to tanks in the first place.
    You'll be singing a different tune if the servers start shutting down because people subscribe to play this game their own style. Just because you think something is good doesn't mean it works for everyone. If it makes the casual players quit then we'll be left without anything to come back too. Are you seriously that optimistic thinking that everyone wants these drastic changes? Just deal with it? You must not care about this game much or lack understanding of what funds it.

    Sure there needed to be some reason to bring tanks into the picture but it was done in an anti-productive way. If people don't want to play anymore you'll lose them. I'm not enthusiastic about the direction things are heading. I have some insight into where things are going. After all I've been a subscriber since 2004 and never have I felt so compelled to quit. I've seen all the nerfs and positive changes.

    The nerfs up to this point weren't nearly as destructive. Back then they had the resources to handle things today they don't. I also so the things that brought in soloing etc. These things people call easy mode. You know I had the most fun when I was able to do things on my own. When I had to work with outer to get something done it was hard to find people willing to invest their time helping free. Sure I have friends but I don't like asking them constantly.

    Now we have people being forced into another style that where already on the fence. Thanks these changes just made them say goodbye for now. There go's our helpful casual friends. Now what do we do when rest of the players who are hard core jerks who only care about themselves? Casual players be damned even though the market proves this is where the money is. There is no longer much enthusiasm to log on and play so it makes it easier to let the game die.
    (2)
    Last edited by Sarick; 04-04-2013 at 10:52 AM.
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  2. #2
    Player Morkriegare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1
    Character
    Morkriegare
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarick View Post
    You'll be singing a different tune if the servers start shutting down because people subscribe to play this game their own style. Just because you think something is good doesn't mean it works for everyone. If it makes the casual players quit then we'll be left without anything to come back too. Are you seriously that optimistic thinking that everyone wants these drastic changes? Just deal with it? You must not care about this game much or lack understanding of what funds it.

    Sure there needed to be some reason to bring tanks into the picture but it was done in an anti-productive way. If people don't want to play anymore you'll lose them. I'm not enthusiastic about the direction things are heading. I have some insight into where things are going. After all I've been a subscriber since 2004 and never have I felt so compelled to quit. I've seen all the nerfs and positive changes.

    The nerfs up to this point weren't nearly as destructive. Back then they had the resources to handle things today they don't. I also so the things that brought in soloing etc. These things people call easy mode. You know I had the most fun when I was able to do things on my own. When I had to work with outer to get something done it was hard to find people willing to invest their time helping free. Sure I have friends but I don't like asking them constantly.

    Now we have people being forced into another style that where already on the fence. Thanks these changes just made them say goodbye for now. There go's our helpful casual friends. Now what do we do when rest of the players who are hard core jerks who only care about themselves? Casual players be damned even though the market proves this is where the money is. There is no longer much enthusiasm to log on and play so it makes it easier to let the game die.
    The question you have to ask yourself, is will returning players like myself offset the players leaving? I joined the moment I smelled tanks being useful again. I'm going to consider new and returning players will partially offset most player loss overall.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player detlef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,645
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahamut View Post
    When I listen to you all, I see a bunch of babies who cared little that abyssea rendered tanks useless and never once did you come to tanks aid. I'm sure there are tanks right now reading this and feeling really hurt by everyone wanting thier job and caring little to even bother trying to ask them to help you out. Adapt and ask a tank to help you for once and quit your crying here in the forum. The producer already said they did not intend for melee and casters to have emmity maxed equal to tanks in the first place.
    Are you the guy who doesn't even play the game? You need not refer to people as tanks. There are people who have a tank job leveled, but almost nobody is defined by a single job.

    Also, your idea of tanking is skewed. In your world, PLD is probably the only job that is allowed to tank. Everybody else who holds hate? Not tanks. MNK? Not a tank. WAR SAM DRK? Not tanks. The reality is that almost any melee job can tank (or could) and there is (was) nothing wrong with that.

    While melee damage enmity was an issue, the current situation is hardly ideal. People who say good riddance to Abyssea, now you have to learn how to play mage jobs right... You haven't pulled hate with paralyze or stoneskin.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by detlef View Post
    The reality is that almost any melee job can tank (or could) and there is (was) nothing wrong with that.
    Ultimately wrong. Any melee job couldn't tank since there are jobs specifically designed to tank.
    It's not Abyssea that redefined who can and can't tank, it's the bad enmity system that wasn't designed to such high DPS.

    Next time, you'll claim that every mage could main heal a PT...
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,350
    Quote Originally Posted by Himrik View Post
    Ultimately wrong. Any melee job couldn't tank since there are jobs specifically designed to tank.
    It's not Abyssea that redefined who can and can't tank, it's the bad enmity system that wasn't designed to such high DPS.

    Next time, you'll claim that every mage could main heal a PT...
    *Whistle*
    SMN/WHM...
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  6. #6
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    *Whistle*
    SMN/WHM...
    That's your definition of "every mage" ?
    And I won't even ask in what event you really can main heal without higher tier Cures or Curagas.

    And since people complain about having to sub WAR or DNC to keep hate, it's bad that you're forced to sub WHM to main heal.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player detlef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,645
    Character
    Philemon
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Himrik View Post
    Ultimately wrong. Any melee job couldn't tank since there are jobs specifically designed to tank.
    It's not Abyssea that redefined who can and can't tank, it's the bad enmity system that wasn't designed to such high DPS.

    Next time, you'll claim that every mage could main heal a PT...
    What situation are you talking about? I'm talking about Salvage, Abyssea, that kind of thing. I'm not talking about Legion or any level 75 content.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Hawklaser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    243
    Character
    Loftythoughts
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Himrik View Post
    Ultimately wrong. Any melee job couldn't tank since there are jobs specifically designed to tank.
    It's not Abyssea that redefined who can and can't tank, it's the bad enmity system that wasn't designed to such high DPS.

    Next time, you'll claim that every mage could main heal a PT...
    Lets see, Whm, Rdm, Smn, Sch, were all expected to be able to main heal parties, and were able to back in the day. I'm sure a few Blm's got asked to main heal groups too. So... I guess that just leaves Blu for the mages, and would not be surprised at all if some have been asked to be a healer for a group, just the smart blu's just kept doing whatever they were doing. Granted this would apply more to pre-abyssea stuff but it was there. Wasn't going to touch this earlier cause Smn/whm is the prime example of expecting any mage to main heal.

    But back to jobs that can tank, any melee *can* tank, doesn't make it a good idea though, same applies to mages and healing. Really the main reason Pld and Nin are the go to tanks, is not because of how well they can hold agro alone but how well they can mitigate incoming damage too. Its the combination of holding agro and damage mitigation that makes a tank job. The tank role is not always filled by a tank job though.

    And on to the forced subjobs... just look at how few subjobs are considered good outside of soloing or very specific events. Melee, its /war, /sam, /nin, /dnc and maybe /thf now, used to be just /war, /nin and /thf. Mages, its has almost always been /whm or /blm, and with the level cap being 99 now, /rdm and /sch have come into the spotlight more.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Luvbunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,395
    Character
    Luvbunny
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawklaser View Post
    But back to jobs that can tank, any melee *can* tank, doesn't make it a good idea though, same applies to mages and healing. Really the main reason Pld and Nin are the go to tanks, is not because of how well they can hold agro alone but how well they can mitigate incoming damage too. Its the combination of holding agro and damage mitigation that makes a tank job. The tank role is not always filled by a tank job though.
    So, with that analogy, Blu actually can make a very excellent tank right after Paladin, Rune Fencer and Ninja. Between Cocoon, Saline Coat, Magic Barrier, etc - they have tons of spells that mitigate damage and can wear similar light armor like RUN and NIN. Their evasion seems to be just as bad as PLD so it would be either tanking with shadow or straight up blood tanking. With a WHM or SCH, BLU can tank very well, at least in Abyssea, probably just as good outside. Which then bring up the 4th and 5th slots of tanking.... Samurai and Rdm.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Triffle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    74
    Character
    Triffle
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Emnity is broken at the moment. I've had plenty of examples that got me killed due to it. Tried killing a mob with Avatar. Let avatar hit it for a bit then tried to do a blood pact and the mob immediately attacked and killed me.
    Also tried killing some umbrils with a THF and me on SCH. He hits it for several minutes until it paralyzes him. I try to paralyna him, the umbril turns and destroys me. Funniest is when casting Raise on someone causes you to gain
    hate from another player fighting.

    So many examples of broken things with this update.
    (3)

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