Enmity imbalance?

[Thundarian]

I had zero issues holding aggro as WAR or BLU while dual boxing salvage II or screwing around in abyssea doing trials.

A 70% reduction in hate from damage still leaves it as the highest source of hate by a long shot. I've run the math, hate is still easy to hold if someone actually does research and learns the hate system. Pets I can't really comment on as I don't play pet jobs through I can see a gimp melee BLM being unable to hold hate (what most avatars actually are). Remember the CE you lose from damage remains the same as before so your pet is losing it's CE just as fast as it's creating it. Thankfully most other players have damage outputs higher then a gimp melee BLM.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was talking about pets. I'm sure you do fine as a WAR or BLU with access to a variety of weapons, traits like double / triple attack, and job abilities / weapon skills you can use more than once every 45 seconds.

Also, as for the same amount of hate being generated as hate being lost from the reduction, that doesn't seem to be true. Summoners always claimed to be able to lose aggro over the course of a very long fight from their pet (I don't speak from experience, I didn't do the whole solo abbysea thing, just absurd amounts of carbuncle kiting). If that was true, the -70% coupled with defense changes seem to have made it so the amount of time it takes for that to happen is much much lower than it used to be. Who knows really. It would probably take a lot of information about avatar's that simply isn't avaliable online to test, so the best you can do is look at what is happening and guess.

[Luvbunny]

The problem with Blu tanking I believe lies with the recast timers and durations of most of those spells, and possibly MP costs as well. Though, if I had to tank on an off job, I'd much rather do it on Blu than say Drg. Which I ended up doing once back in the day due to an extremely horrible Pld in a Valley of Sorrows xp party. That was a very painful party.

Magic Barrier - 29 mp, recast 60 sec, duration 5 mnts
Cocoon - 10 mp, recast 60 sec, duration 90 sec
Saline Coat - 66 mp, recast 60 sec, duration 60 sec

Seems rather reasonable MP cost, especially with a RDM in party, or Sch/Rdm, Whm/Rdm. Slightly worse evasion than PLD but better than RDM. Yeah I feel for you on the old school set up party experience lol. It's back now though

[Zagen]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I was talking about pets.

For what it's worth I've had 0 issues in Abyssea, Salvage 1, Limbus, and Dynamis keeping hate locked on my pets. I know that's not "hard" mobs but I haven't noticed the problem. I have however in that context noticed my pet's damage went up more notably than my own damage did. Don't get me wrong I still have to snarl after a Ruinator or 2 but I'm just not seeing the whole "bst pet can't keep hate off master" thing.

To be honest the only major thing the update did was cause me to need double to triple the food I used to use. As a BST and PUP fan that sucks but as a person who can look beyond those jobs I see it as a good thing as it "weakens" pet jobs without directly nerfing them which in general is a way to promote different game play in my opinion.

Edit: I haven't had a chance to do Arrapago Remnants II mainly due to the whole increased food need on easy stuff. That zone including the NQ boss clear was running my friend (other BST) and I 5 stacks of Thetas and 3-5 Dawns before the update and we're scared to see what it costs now haha.

[Hawklaser]

Magic Barrier - 29 mp, recast 60 sec, duration 5 mnts
Cocoon - 10 mp, recast 60 sec, duration 90 sec
Saline Coat - 66 mp, recast 60 sec, duration 60 sec

Seems rather reasonable MP cost, especially with a RDM in party, or Sch/Rdm, Whm/Rdm. Slightly worse evasion than PLD but better than RDM. Yeah I feel for you on the old school set up party experience lol. It's back now though

Yeah I looked at some of those, I just remember there being some reason other than how much damage blu does that caused it to never really catch on for tanking. Maybe it was cast times, or just the lack of many good native mitigation tools besides cocoon until 65 while cap was still 75.

[saevel]

Yeah I looked at some of those, I just remember there being some reason other than how much damage blu does that caused it to never really catch on for tanking. Maybe it was cast times, or just the lack of many good native mitigation tools besides cocoon until 65 while cap was still 75.

I tank on BLU all the time <.<

The reason it didn't "catch on" is because most players see "Mage" in it's name and immediately discount it. To properly play BLU you need a variety of gear sets and individual player skills. Also I've main healed on BLU before, it's just like the other healing jobs and Magic Fruit was stronger then Cure IV. Honestly before the cure buff BLU was the second best healer in the game, still a long distance behind WHM though.

Any "DD" can also be a "tank", they merely need to reach over and hit that macro that puts on their -DT gear. There is a ton of damage reduction gear available to everyone now, especially if your a WAR or DRK.

[Himrik]

If any DD should be a tank, why shouldn't any tank be a DD ?
Cause it's pretty clear on these forums that PLD doesn't deserve to do good damage, but everybody bitches when DD get their ass beaten when trying to tank...

Why don't you stick to your role and let the designed tanks do theirs ?

[Jaall]

If any DD should be a tank, why shouldn't any tank be a DD ?
Cause it's pretty clear on these forums that PLD doesn't deserve to do good damage, but everybody bitches when DD get their ass beaten when trying to tank...

Why don't you stick to your role and let the designed tanks do theirs ?

^ I agree with this to an extent. It's not like there's a shortage of PLD or NIN's now so any DD trying to do the same level of tanking as them is kinda pointless and just a way for people to still do more damage. PLD and NIN were always chosen over other "could-be" tanks because if they were available they did the job a lot smoother and a lot cleaner. The only exception would be MNK in salvage because well, that's obvious, and MNK in a few other things due to hp. I'm in no way saying it's not possible for DD to tank but they will never be as good as a PLD or NIN. There will most likely be a lot of "ohshi..." moments and if you don't have a good gear set and expect to tank straight out without putting the effort in (this is where a lot of people are going wrong and then come on here complaining about it) then you're gonna die, simple as.

[Zagen]

If any DD should be a tank, why shouldn't any tank be a DD ?
Cause it's pretty clear on these forums that PLD doesn't deserve to do good damage, but everybody bitches when DD get their ass beaten when trying to tank...

Why don't you stick to your role and let the designed tanks do theirs ?

When a DD sticks to their roll even after the update they're still capping hate and recapping it to the point they become the tank. At that point there is no reason to bring a dedicated tank job (PLD, NIN, RUN, w/e) outside of "just because" reasoning. Oh and by the way even with the update a DD isn't getting "their ass beaten" while trying to tank if they actually know how to play the game.

[saevel]

If any DD should be a tank, why shouldn't any tank be a DD ?
Cause it's pretty clear on these forums that PLD doesn't deserve to do good damage, but everybody bitches when DD get their ass beaten when trying to tank...

Why don't you stick to your role and let the designed tanks do theirs ?

I present exhibit A on whats wrong with the game.

People don't even know what their talking about.

[Himrik]

DD won't be killed ? That's weird, cause a lot of people doesn't seem to like MNKs and DRKs taking hits for 600-800 dmg because of the atk/def update.

By the way, this very thread complains about healers who frequently steals hate over DD, so capping hate is not as easy as you think. And if Cure will get you that much enmity over DPS, I wonder...

Who can Cure others to gain enmity ?
Who has a lot of defensive buffs to survive hits even with the recent adjustments ?
Who even used to sub WAR to have access to usefull hate tool like Provoke and Warcry ?
Who doesn't depend greatly on DPS to maintain their hate ?

Totally MNK, DRK and THF, right !