Enmity imbalance?

[Luvbunny]

The hate adjustment is seriously messed up, for whm and beast and summoner, pretty much everything. You should try it. As beast master, you will loose hate by doing the simplest thing, even if you are not attacking the mob at all. Any thing you do will get hate - it's totally broken right now. And it is not fun running around finding the next tree root to kill, with an hour spawn rate, run around and round. This is better than abyssea? At least there you have proper mob to kill and actual NMs that gets you seal reward. Even voidwatch and meeble is better than this kill the stupid root over and over again....

[Demon6324236]

The hate adjustment is seriously messed up, for whm and beast and summoner, pretty much everything. You should try it. As beast master, you will loose hate by doing the simplest thing, even if you are not attacking the mob at all. Any thing you do will get hate - it's totally broken right now.

On topic.

And it is not fun running around finding the next tree root to kill, with an hour spawn rate, run around and round. This is better than abyssea? At least there you have proper mob to kill and actual NMs that gets you seal reward. Even voidwatch and meeble is better than this kill the stupid root over and over again....

Not on topic.

[detlef]

I do find hate to be tenuous for certain things you wouldn't necessarily expect. I can't really quantify it yet or give a better description then "my healer seems to be higher on the the hate list than expected." Not a fan of the enmity adjustment at the moment, but this is just the first iteration and I think things will be addressed.

[nyheen]

did some testing with bst/nin in rala waterways and man the enmity is a bit over the top. most of the time i was tanking more then my pet. i bet it gonna be a pain to deal with in dynamis

[Camiie]

Here's what happens on to me on BST. Send pet in to get in a hit or two. Heel. Mob starts hitting me. Working as intended?

[Karah]

I've been noticing that basically anything cast by a mage is pulling enmity off anything else.

I'll engage, bully, SA > Mercy stroke > then cast regen, cure2/3 and the mage gets hate, it's a bit much.

Even 10-20 melee rounds generates lower enmity than auspice, or boost-str.

[saevel]

I've been noticing that basically anything cast by a mage is pulling enmity off anything else.

I'll engage, bully, SA > Mercy stroke > then cast regen, cure2/3 and the mage gets hate, it's a bit much.

Even 10-20 melee rounds generates lower enmity than auspice, or boost-str.

Not possible. We know the hate values for both of those, their incredibly small, a fly farting would generate more hate.

2 / 3 questions

#1 How much total damage are you doing within a 30 / 60 / 90s period. That makes a very big difference early on when you have no CE / VE built up. This is the only thing "hate tools" are good for, that initial spike.

#2 How much total damage is the NM doing to you within that same 30 / 60 / 90s period.

#3 What heals and for how much is your WHM curing for. Before a 400HP cure used to be 186 CE and 1116 VE before -enmity or tranqual heart. No that same 400HP cure would be 56 CE and 335 VE. 800HP Cure IV would now be 112CE and 670 VE. These are all slight approximations, but they should be good to within the second digit. Cure V is 400CE and 700 VE. People should notice that Cure IV is now more enmity efficient then Cure V.

To "tank" things you need an initial VE spike then a period where your building CE by spamming WS's. After you got a solid hold on CE you can open up a bit. Make a PDT / MDT set, it is a life saver by not only requiring less healing (and thus less enmity generation) from your healer but also reducing your hate bleed from big TP moves.

[noirin]

This hate update does seem to hurt anyone outside of tank jobs rather hard.As a Bst wandering Adoulin by myself,i absolutely cannot use Guttler while fighting things or my pet will never,ever pull hate on its own. Heck I have to stay in my pdt kit just to keep my pets around long enough to solo any mobs.Even then,turning and giving my pets some time to kill the mob [lets say,halfway or so] still results in my taking direct hate the moment i turn for a hit.
Waltzing anytime during that also is rather suicidal,as the mob instantly will hit me and undo my recovery.

That being said though, a few days ago when i was doing quests with a small team [me Bst,Pup and a Pld] then we had no issues at all coasting around and killing the occasional Velkk and NM for things. So while this adjustment is seriously hurting my Solo/Mage efforts, it did do the 1 thing SE clearly wanted-Made Tanks and heavy defense jobs more desirable to anyone partaking in the current content.

Sadly,they need to realize not all of us like to wander around as tanks.

[Karah]

Obviously, it was hyperbole, but not that far from accurate. I'm well aware of the values, and mechanics.

It's that the (umbrils in that post) take so little damage from melee, that ~2,000 damage wasn't enough to hold enmity over a single cast of auspice, or regen 4.

Obviously after being hit, as they have near perfect accuracy. (in a "standard" tp set)

Enmity needed adjusting, I just think they overshot it, by a little (lot).

[saevel]

Obviously, it was hyperbole, but not that far from accurate. I'm well aware of the values, and mechanics.

It's that the (umbrils in that post) take so little damage from melee, that ~2,000 damage wasn't enough to hold enmity over a single cast of auspice, or regen 4.

Obviously after being hit, as they have near perfect accuracy. (in a "standard" tp set)

Enmity needed adjusting, I just think they overshot it, by a little (lot).

2000 damage + the melee hits involved to get that TP should of been plenty, we're talking ~800 CE and another ~2400 VE.

The only part that is "broken" is they didn't adjust Cure V's CE/VE values to be in line with everything else, it's actually the worse heal by far to use for enmity now.

Not every job can "tank" something WHM + XXX like they used to unfortunately. Were you /DNC? Did you not build steps up for animated flourish? It'll provide the big early VE boost through it'll become useless after a min or two of fighting.