Enmity imbalance?

[Zagen]

Indeed you didn't use Enmity gear. And that can change the situation a lot. Let's say the PLD cures with Enmity +50 (Not that hard), he will gain 1552 CE in a full TP circle.

Assuming the DD doesn't use enmity gear (Since he shouldn't), he's still at 744 CE, so the difference is now 808 CE.
For your WS to place you over the tank, you need to do at least 2225 dmg.

As for DD who like spamming weapon skills, after getting a good slap from NMs, maybe they'll learn a little strategy.

I like how you used 100 damage for what a DD would do... If you think that's how little damage a DD does I can see why you think cures are a good idea for hate.

[saevel]

So... much ... wrong ...

Holding back ....

[Zagen]

So... much ... wrong ...

Holding back ....

If you mean my numbers I'd rather you not hold back, point out my mistakes so I can learn from them.

[saevel]

If you mean my numbers I'd rather you not hold back, point out my mistakes so I can learn from them.

Not you, the ignorant one.

The update reduced both damage and cure CE / VE valued by the same .3 multiplier.

To a level 99 target hate went from 0.465 CE per 1HP to 0.139 CE per 1HP. VE is just CE x 6 for a new value of 0.834 VE per HP cured. A 800HP cure IV will generate 112 CE and 668 VE, a 400 HP Cure III will generate 56 CE and 334VE. In contrast a Cure V for ~any~ HP will generate *drum roll* 400 CE and 700 VE. Everyone read that right, Cure V now generates more enmity per HP healed then Cure III / IV, that is why so many WHM's who relied on it are having hate issues. Also remember Cure III / IV give hate for actual HP healed not total potential HP. "Cure Cheat" only works if someone can force their HP low enough that they get the fully enmity from the cure, this is why it was largely abandoned as a tactic.

CE from damage done is based on target level, so the monsters level. The higher level the monster the lower the value and it seems to go on a slope of about -0.012~0.014 per level after 90. So a monster at level 105 would have a CE value of 1.11 CE + 3.33 VE per damage done. After the update it would be 0.33 CE and 1.0VE per damage done.

Knowing that we can see how much hate is produced from one set of TP + WS. An average DD can WS once every 15~20s depending on buffs. With a 7-hit (again average, or slightly below average DD) your looking at 6 melee hits + WS damage. Lets do an average WS of ~2000 (kinda weak but whatever). Six hits at 200 each comes to 396 CE and 1200 VE, the 2000 WS adds 660 CE and 2000 VE for a combined damage hate of 1056 CE and 3200 VE. That's in ~20s.

Now a good DD that has a BRD buffing them will go WAY beyond the above numbers. On a level 120 target with CDB my averages were 283 damage per swing, 3224 per WS and ~8s between WS's.

Finally DD have thing known as a "ohh sh!t, please don't die" gear set. We've had that since 2004, though back then it was mostly +evasion or +defense and largely ineffective. From Abyssea into Voidwatch there has been a crap ton of PDT/MDT gear sets released, there is no excuse for DD's to not have at least 25% PDT and 40~50% MDT. The two highest DD's actually have it the best, they have better defense options then anyone else (sans shields). Personally I now have 47% PDT, 50% MDT 25% haste (capped 25%) with a 6-hit for AM up on WAR. DRK's can do the same thing with Apoc.

So the idea of DD's "dieing left and right" is utter silliness.

[Zagen]

Thank you for writing that out, I must have missed the cure hate nerf part though that explains why I haven't noticed issues on SCH (my preferred healer option).

[saevel]

Thing with curing yourself is that healing enmity also took a reduction identical to damage done so the ratio between them stayed the same and has damage out on top.