Enmity imbalance?

[Triffle]

Emnity is broken at the moment. I've had plenty of examples that got me killed due to it. Tried killing a mob with Avatar. Let avatar hit it for a bit then tried to do a blood pact and the mob immediately attacked and killed me.
Also tried killing some umbrils with a THF and me on SCH. He hits it for several minutes until it paralyzes him. I try to paralyna him, the umbril turns and destroys me. Funniest is when casting Raise on someone causes you to gain
hate from another player fighting.

So many examples of broken things with this update.

[Morkriegare]

You'll be singing a different tune if the servers start shutting down because people subscribe to play this game their own style. Just because you think something is good doesn't mean it works for everyone. If it makes the casual players quit then we'll be left without anything to come back too. Are you seriously that optimistic thinking that everyone wants these drastic changes? Just deal with it? You must not care about this game much or lack understanding of what funds it.

Sure there needed to be some reason to bring tanks into the picture but it was done in an anti-productive way. If people don't want to play anymore you'll lose them. I'm not enthusiastic about the direction things are heading. I have some insight into where things are going. After all I've been a subscriber since 2004 and never have I felt so compelled to quit. I've seen all the nerfs and positive changes.

The nerfs up to this point weren't nearly as destructive. Back then they had the resources to handle things today they don't. I also so the things that brought in soloing etc. These things people call easy mode. You know I had the most fun when I was able to do things on my own. When I had to work with outer to get something done it was hard to find people willing to invest their time helping free. Sure I have friends but I don't like asking them constantly.

Now we have people being forced into another style that where already on the fence. Thanks these changes just made them say goodbye for now. There go's our helpful casual friends. Now what do we do when rest of the players who are hard core jerks who only care about themselves? Casual players be damned even though the market proves this is where the money is. There is no longer much enthusiasm to log on and play so it makes it easier to let the game die.

The question you have to ask yourself, is will returning players like myself offset the players leaving? I joined the moment I smelled tanks being useful again. I'm going to consider new and returning players will partially offset most player loss overall.

[Karah]

You will likely change your mind after seeing what kind of changes are actually made,

It's rather 'pants-on-head' right now.

[Luvbunny]

Emnity is broken at the moment. I've had plenty of examples that got me killed due to it. Tried killing a mob with Avatar. Let avatar hit it for a bit then tried to do a blood pact and the mob immediately attacked and killed me. Also tried killing some umbrils with a THF and me on SCH. He hits it for several minutes until it paralyzes him. I try to paralyna him, the umbril turns and destroys me. Funniest is when casting Raise on someone causes you to gain
hate from another player fighting. So many examples of broken things with this update.

The same Umbril that chewed on Blue/Ninja can't even hurt a Rdm/Blue with cocoon + phalanx + stoneskin + boost vit + defense food. You will last a long time as Rdm. Bring echo drops, and remedy should things get dire. But I never in any time in any danger fighting Umbril. It paralyzed me quite a few times, but my para also did the same to it, slow, bio, blind all landed. Give it a whirl. The red coat is back lol. But yeah, enmity for pet jobs is BROKEN to pieces right now.... Need fix badly.

[detlef]

When I listen to you all, I see a bunch of babies who cared little that abyssea rendered tanks useless and never once did you come to tanks aid. I'm sure there are tanks right now reading this and feeling really hurt by everyone wanting thier job and caring little to even bother trying to ask them to help you out. Adapt and ask a tank to help you for once and quit your crying here in the forum. The producer already said they did not intend for melee and casters to have emmity maxed equal to tanks in the first place.

Are you the guy who doesn't even play the game? You need not refer to people as tanks. There are people who have a tank job leveled, but almost nobody is defined by a single job.

Also, your idea of tanking is skewed. In your world, PLD is probably the only job that is allowed to tank. Everybody else who holds hate? Not tanks. MNK? Not a tank. WAR SAM DRK? Not tanks. The reality is that almost any melee job can tank (or could) and there is (was) nothing wrong with that.

While melee damage enmity was an issue, the current situation is hardly ideal. People who say good riddance to Abyssea, now you have to learn how to play mage jobs right... You haven't pulled hate with paralyze or stoneskin.

[Jaall]

While I agree with you detlef that people need to learn to play now instead of whining all the time, and clearly it's not as bad as to pull hate with a single debuff unless you're absolutely failing to do any damage at all, WAR and MNK etc were never fantastic tanks. It was always PLD, NIN or gtfo. WAR and MNK could tank but it was extremely situational so in that way it's still the same but PLD is and always will be the greatest fitting job for a tank role just, largely because of shields and how much they block tbh. Also pre abyssea no DRK could ever tank unless they had Apoc lol, but that's different because back then it was also a lot harder to get a relic, in my experience dread spikes only really helped for a certain time and as soon as it wore you were as good as dead! SAM/DNC was fantastic solo and again situationally but I wouldn't call it a tank simply cause you'd never see someone tanking a HNM or a classic dyna mass pull on SAM. I think there's still a lot to see with the latest update before we go judge what is and isn't a tank, and a lot will depend on the updates we get in the next few months.

[saevel]

Emnity is broken at the moment. I've had plenty of examples that got me killed due to it. Tried killing a mob with Avatar. Let avatar hit it for a bit then tried to do a blood pact and the mob immediately attacked and killed me.
Also tried killing some umbrils with a THF and me on SCH. He hits it for several minutes until it paralyzes him. I try to paralyna him, the umbril turns and destroys me. Funniest is when casting Raise on someone causes you to gain
hate from another player fighting.

So many examples of broken things with this update.

I'm beginning to believe there might be a problem with pet related enmity gains. All the problems reported are dealing with pets not regular players. It could very well be that pets simply are not generating any significant enmity. Probably them forgetting a decimal place somewhere.

[wildsprite]

While melee damage enmity was an issue, the current situation is hardly ideal. People who say good riddance to Abyssea, now you have to learn how to play mage jobs right... You haven't pulled hate with paralyze or stoneskin.

woah woah woah cool your jets there pal, many of us who know how to play our mage jobs and excel(sp?) at them have to now worry about hate we NEVER had to deal with before? so in your eyes that means we have to learn how to play mage jobs right?
I don't think you understand what the situation is here, the FACT is the Emnity system is broken,

we shouldn't be pulling hate off the tank with something as simple as paralyze or stoneskin as long as the tank has established sufficient hate.

but the problem is just that, they threw this in there without actually fully testing the results.

and they are going to fix this at the end of the month? this will probably also happen without fully testing it.
I cant be the only one wondering "why aren't they using the test server?"

[Thundarian]

I'm beginning to believe there might be a problem with pet related enmity gains. All the problems reported are dealing with pets not regular players. It could very well be that pets simply are not generating any significant enmity. Probably them forgetting a decimal place somewhere.

There is an issue 100%, but the issue is built into the system, not a result of some bug with pets. Doing testing tonight in Abyssea, I found that my avatar could not hold aggro with auto attacks on most mobs. With me sitting around doing nothing beyond the initial assault command, the avatar doesn't hold hate.

Why you ask? They rely on damage for creating aggro. They are currently, against a lot of mobs, losing more hate from being attacked than they are making with their auto attacks, causing them to quickly fall behind everything else. One ability every 45 seconds isn't enough damage to hold threat for another entire 45 seconds in a lot of situations.

Someone didn't sit down and do the math on how much hate an avatar would lose per second versus how much hate they would create per second from auto attacking in a lot of situations.

[Luvbunny]

That's very odd. I did go to Abyssea as summoner, Leviathan was able to hold aggro just fine with one Grandfall doing 2-3k damage. I was free to cast cure, self buffs, and whack the mob without getting the hate shifted back. I did test as bst + blm duo and Dipper Yully easily hold aggro vs Amhuluk, not once the hate is shifted. Nothing overtly wonky happening in Abyssea so far, seems everything working as intended lol. On the plus note, if you can get your defense way up there, Abyssea is even more easier now. Bring some defense food, your smn may need it