New weapons with higher base damage then relics

[Demon6324236]

If people thought their 200-500m weapon were going to be outdated a few updates down the road, very few people would bother. People are loss averse and will universally consider the devaluing of a significant investment a loss. Is the expectation of security for high-level investments really this difficult of a concept to understand?

No, its easy to understand, and yet, its not like the weapons are simply being left as they are, or that people do not do things which are equally as pointless. People go buy gear like the Hexed -1 gear that is hundreds of millions of gil, some pieces are more expensive than Relics, and yet, they buy them, and some of it gets out dated every update, look at the Khepri hat, it was out done this Expansion as a WS head, the new WS legs out do Tenryu for SAM on Shoha I believe, but win for Relic and Emp WSs still, for now. People spend a ton of money on items, in my opinion, anything you are willing to put the money into, plan to have it outdated at some point, because chances are it will be for a bit, if not forever.

Hagun does not compare at all. Hagun was always orders of magnitude below the investment level of a relic or mythic.

No, its not an exact comparison, it is an investment that people made on a weapon which at the time was highly sought out and used, it had a high price and rightly so, but then once the level cap was taken to 80, its price and worth diminished a bit, and ever since it has went down hill for that weapon. Right now, RME are still second~third best at worst, its not like they suddenly had 5 new weapons of each category pop up and instantly beat it, all of it able to be bought like the armors are at the Peacekeepers. Also as I said, in this case the investment has no return, it has upgrades, those RMEs can be upgraded to a level where they becoming stronger again possibly, now if that change makes them weaker still, then fine, yes, we all have reason to rage, till then, not really. For now I see it as though we are all of those old Relic owners who had their Relics at 75, which were out done till SE gave them trials to make Relics not suck as much anymore.

[Asymptotic]

Hexed -1 gear is an interesting point, but I'd like to point out that at least personally, I completely avoided it because I was expecting a gear power creep out of Adoulin so I didn't consider anything Hexed-1 (or Legion in general) to be a safe investment. (I know other people who had the same feeling).

Personally, I don't spend more than ~10m on a single piece of gear unless I'm pretty sure it's going to last. I never said that people wouldn't continue to make RME for whatever reason if they were all completely trumped, because people do make economically silly decisions (Huginn Gambieras) but you don't look at individual behavior for things like this, you look at the overall trend. Legion for example, had extremely lukewarm reception due to rewards widely regarded as impotent for the level of effort and organization required.

[Concerned4FFxi]

No, its easy to understand, and yet, its not like the weapons are simply being left as they are, or that people do not do things which are equally as pointless. People go buy gear like the Hexed -1 gear that is hundreds of millions of gil, some pieces are more expensive than Relics, and yet, they buy them, and some of it gets out dated every update, look at the Khepri hat, it was out done this Expansion as a WS head, the new WS legs out do Tenryu for SAM on Shoha I believe, but win for Relic and Emp WSs still, for now. People spend a ton of money on items, in my opinion, anything you are willing to put the money into, plan to have it outdated at some point, because chances are it will be for a bit, if not forever.

No, its not an exact comparison, it is an investment that people made on a weapon which at the time was highly sought out and used, it had a high price and rightly so, but then once the level cap was taken to 80, its price and worth diminished a bit, and ever since it has went down hill for that weapon. Right now, RME are still second~third best at worst, its not like they suddenly had 5 new weapons of each category pop up and instantly beat it, all of it able to be bought like the armors are at the Peacekeepers. Also as I said, in this case the investment has no return, it has upgrades, those RMEs can be upgraded to a level where they becoming stronger again possibly, now if that change makes them weaker still, then fine, yes, we all have reason to rage, till then, not really. For now I see it as though we are all of those old Relic owners who had their Relics at 75, which were out done till SE gave them trials to make Relics not suck as much anymore.

except, after attaining hexed -1 gear and augmenting it, months later there's no update to send you thru a bunch of grueling trials to further augment, after you spent millions and then immediately find out is was a waste of time. That's the difference here. Also, SE had a habbit of keeping r/m/e on top. That's why they got the upgrades orginally. There's shit in this game that supposed to always be a solid investment, like k-club. SE broke balance, trying to set the game up for the next ten years and sell SOA. That's the kinda BS that keep the neo-limbus gear down , too.

[Demon6324236]

except, after attaining hexed -1 gear and augmenting it, months later there's no update to send you thru a bunch of grueling trials to further augment, after you spent millions and then immediately find out is was a waste of time.

Your right, once the new gear out dates it, its done, your money is wasted, its a R/EX item, and now its worthless and you might as well drop it, Relics, Mythics, and Emps, all will be growing still, you there is no need to drop them, the investment is still sound, and there is no reason to believe that your weapon is forever going to be left off of the top of the charts.

[B-Dex]

It boggles my mind people are so upset about these new weapons when they have already had years and years to enjoy and use their current gear. Years.

Is it really so bad there are new alternatives? You shouldn't expect anything to last forever. Especially in these types of games.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

There's shit in this game that supposed to always be a solid investment, like k-club.

That's a horrible example. The Kraken Club was a mistake, from the same expansion that gave us Utsusemi.

Several HNM drops got moved to BCNMs and had EX replacements in the HNM pool. Only one EX replacement actually got nerfed.

[Jackstin]

I'm sure there will be new Trials to further Augment relic weapons. Have no fear.

[Zumi]

Was posted on BG, that a group farmed a statue for 1.5 hours, did skirmish. Got the GS and Club, anyway the GS had DMG 141 + 11 augment and 6 str.

Definitely comparable with Ragnarok.

[Asymptotic]

Your right, once the new gear out dates it, its done, your money is wasted, its a R/EX item, and now its worthless and you might as well drop it, Relics, Mythics, and Emps, all will be growing still, you there is no need to drop them, the investment is still sound, and there is no reason to believe that your weapon is forever going to be left off of the top of the charts.

I agree that they will adjust the performance somehow, but my arguments were against the people who were saying that they should not do so. There's been a frustrating choir of "Haha, sucks to be you, that's what you get for working hard for something and expecting it to remain relevant!" (Not surprisingly, mostly from people who haven't actually invested the effort to make anything beyond 90 Empyreans if even that.)

That's a horrible example. The Kraken Club was a mistake, from the same expansion that gave us Utsusemi.

Several HNM drops got moved to BCNMs and had EX replacements in the HNM pool. Only one EX replacement actually got nerfed.

Right, because SE didn't want to devalue the Kraken Club but they still wanted to end RMT monopolization of the NMs.

It boggles my mind people are so upset about these new weapons when they have already had years and years to enjoy and use their current gear. Years.

Is it really so bad there are new alternatives? You shouldn't expect anything to last forever. Especially in these types of games.

This argument again?

1.) I don't think any reasonable poster has complained that there are alternatives to 95 and below RME - on top of that - a large number of RM are not relevant in the first place (this is an issue that should have been addressed a long time ago SE, coughtupsimaticough), but even then still carried at least the distinction of always being one of the highest base damage weapons in their class.

2.) People would not have invested so much in RME99 if they thought they would just be not just caught up to - but put in danger of being outclassed - very soon down the road. Additionally, if these weapons are outclassed a significant portion of the game economy will fall flat because people do not expend large amounts of effort (on average) for things that are mediocre. (See: the nigh failure of Legion and to an extent Meeble Burrows - Meeble Burrows is a fun event but the rewards from the Batallia wing range from mediocre to downright garbage, the rarity of Claustrum and Gungir etc.)

3.) SE could just increase the base damage of all the 99 versions (and for the record , people have not had several years to enjoy their 99 weapons) of these weapons such that they remain near the highest in their class and shut everyone up about it, people will continue making them, and SE can continue to create alternatives to these weapons that are capable of existing alongside the 99 versions. This is the path of least resistance, and it's probably the route they'll take.

[Pebe]

Let me start by saying I'm a mage job user:

I keep seeing these arguments that R/M/E were always supposed to be the best blah blah blah, etc etc etc.

And then, I take a look at the Claustrum in my inventory and ponder for a moment... Then I take a look at the mythic for my favorite job, SCH - Tupsimati, and ponder some more... And then I consider how 75 Laevateiin lost to the elemental staffs, and how 99 laevateiin loses to the trials staffs without aftermath. And then i consider Nirvana, and how its perp- is equal to that of the trial staffs, and how Uffrat decimates it without aftermath. And then I consider the concept of aftermath, and how much a mage suffers in keeping up 299 tp aftermath of blm, sch, smn, etc etc.

Then I conclude, you melees have nothing to complain about. Mages R/M/E have been crap for years, besides those occasional niche uses (Like Hvergelmir). In my opinion, if we are keeping in mind true equality of investment across all job, either 1 of the following needs to happen:

1. Certain R/M/E get a revamp to keep relevancy. (There are a few that do not need such adjustments - Ryuhinge)
2. A new set of Ultima Weapons come out that require the combination of the 99 versions of R/M/E to complete(not afterglow). The end all, be all weapons.