Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Insaniac]

This feels like an exercise in futility since we have been saying this for months now and SE clearly didn't read any of it or just doesn't care.

Vision
Stealthy pickpockets that duck and weave to land sneak attacks while keeping party enmity under control from the shadows.

This is complete nonsense. 2 minutes into a fight a THF has almost no impact on enmity. TAing a tank with capped hate does nothing. Collabo on a DD gets hate off of them for a total of 1 second. Collabo on a BLM gets hate off of them for 1 nuke. THF is useless in this dept.

We wish to see thieves further develop the cunning they are so aptly known for by providing them with even more means of manipulating enmity and continuing to fatten the party's coffers.

This is the part that makes me think I shouldn't even bother. What kind of a role is this to play? We all know our enmity abilities do pretty much nothing anymore which leaves us with the job of hitting the enemy twice every minute and then being blamed when we don't get what we want.

Example Adjustments

Adding a new ability that complements Sneak Attack and Trick Attack.

This one could be something good but even if it is it's not enough of a damage buff. THF is completely outclassed by dancers when it comes to daggers. This is NONSENSE. This would be along the lines of PUP being better at HtH damage than MNK... or SCHs having Cure 6.

Raising the chances of successfully executing Steal and Despoil commensurate with Treasure Hunter.

Really SE? Higher steal rates? Higher despoil? First off both of these JA are useless in an HNM setting. USELESS. The only thing steal is good for is aura steal and by raising the success rate of steal you are lowering the success rate of the only good thing about the JA.

Adding a new ability that intimidates an enemy in proportion to the number of members in the party.

Cool another JA that will not help us with the one thing we are actually still good at. Low man tanking. This will surely be a warcry type ability and only affect the members of your party so unless the thf is in the tank party, which it won't be, this JA will suck and bring almost nothing to the table.

So.. Here we are again. TH whores. Why has every post on this forum been completely ignored? I admit some of the ideas are terrible and unbalanced/unrealistic but a lot of them are reasonable requests for more DD power (at least enough to put DNC back in 2nd place when it comes to daggers) and steal type abilities that actually do something. How could you possibly think the 2nd and 3rd examples are things we would be interested in?
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MAJOR EDITS!!!

Since this has turned into much more than just the rage thread it started as I went through and tried to gather some stuff that shouldn't be lost in the vastness of the thread.

First we have the ComRep reply.


And then -Adjustment suggestions that have been peppered throughout the thread.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.htm...2&h=50&p=3#124

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post147335

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post147427

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post147851

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post148821

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post153039

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post153439

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post173312

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post173370

Finally - The perceived problems that we ,for the most part ,were able to agree on once the RAGE settled

1) THF has no real use. TH2 is the best form of TH in terms of noticeable boosts, anything past that is all pretty much unnoticeable/unseeable boosts. So we're not even good for that beyond placebo effects.

2) We have no real DD capabilities, similar to a lot of lesser DD jobs, Except THF falls further behind than others in this Gap. Since 75 the gap between THFs power and the next best DD has widened much further. In this field, we don't ask to be top tier DD, simply to have the gap lessened.

3) Devs want us to be support class and "Control enmity" and as it stands THF has no real methods to "Control" enmity. 2 Abilities on a shared timer and no way to disperse extra Enmity does not a master make. So as far as the Devs "vision" of the job goes we even lack capabilities there

4) Over-all Lack of Uniqueness of the job, usefulness of the job. Right now the only thing keeping THF relevant is ignorance of Treasure Hunter, But once that becomes common knowledge I doubt THF will keep its head above water.

5) We're all disappointed by the BS Responses we got earlier, which basically to summarize tell us things like "Aura Steal is too powerful to separate from Steal, or Reduce timer", and "You can't have Subtle Blow because You melee for TH upgrades, and we feel that balances it", etc.

6) Practically 0 job growth since the level cap increases. THF is more or less the same exact job it was at level 75 where most other jobs have grown either slightly or exponentially. TH3 and the proc system seems to have been just a placebo put in place to keep THFs from being completely forgotten when TH2 became sub-able.

[Nebo]

Adding a new ability that intimidates an enemy in proportion to the number of members in the party.

[SIZE="6"]STOP. GIVING. THF. [SIZE="7"] THESE RETARDED.[/SIZE] PARTY ONLY RESTRICTIONS. ON JOB ABILITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/SIZE]

[Insaniac]

STOP. GIVING. THF. THESE RETARDED. PARTY ONLY RESTRICTIONS.ON JOB ABILITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^ DNC and NIN already solo far better than THF so why can't we get some solo buffs?

[Nebo]

Raising the chances of successfully executing Steal and Despoil commensurate with Treasure Hunter.

The chance of steal and despoil success is not the problem. The problem is that the abilities themselves are useless compounded by the fact that they don't work on NM's or any worthwhile content.

First and foremost, their recast timers need to be seperated and lowered. If you don't start with this, just leave them alone. Anything you do with them is just going to make people angry.

Second, despoil needs to have NOTHING to do with stealing items. IT is a half assed joke of an ability that lives between stealing useless crap items that NO ONE cares about and inflicting a variable enfeebling effects that we cannot make use of.

Despoil should inflict and then steal its enfeebling effect. And you need to be able to specificy which effect it will be....or it will remain.....USELESS.

Steal and Aurasteal need to be seperated. Non negotiable. If you are increasing the success rate of steal, that only means that it proc before aurasteal more often.

That aside, the issue with steal is not its success rate. It is the stupid 5 minute recast timer that you attach to everything, compounded by a retardedly low success rate, made largely irrelevant due to the fact that there is nothing really worth stealing in this game.

HAVE YOU BEEN LISTENING TO US AT ALL????

[Alukat]

piece of gear which augments trick attack to transfer x% of thf's enmity to the TA'd target, makes sneak attack possible and will do significant changes to thf's dmg output.

THF needs to get rid of some enmity somehow, otherwise Sneak attack will still be useless!!!!!!

steal/despoil. to make them usefull the timers needs to be seperated & lowered and items need to be added on NMs/HNMs.
this items should be only obtainable via steal/despoil and they should be ingredients for high end gear/food.

otherwise steal/despoil will still be useless!!!!

JA for intimidation? seriously? that's beastmasters job (killer instinct)!!!!!

Edit:
and since weakness targeting th isn't required as it was without it,maybe th isn't neccessary at all anymore

[StingRay104]

Btw did you all see that war is getting their own version of sneak attack, from any direction, ty SE............/rage.

[Leonlionheart]

Btw did you all see that war is getting their own version of sneak attack, from any direction, ty SE............/rage.

Ignorance.

Sneak Attack =/= next melee hit is a crit

SA adds a DEX modifier for that attack or ws coupled with it (on thf main).

To me the fact that they are giving WAR a auto-crit JA is saying that they are going to do more Tank and Spank fights, like how everyone used to do Sky gods. Get 100 TP doing minimal damage, then bust out huge WSs. Not having to sub THF to do those WS's is a plus, and in such fights only really increases WARs defense.

Does it subtract from THF? No.
Does it overpower WAR? Well, yes. In Abyssea, but we all know we're leaving.

[Insaniac]

Ignorance.

Sneak Attack =/= next melee hit is a crit

SA adds a DEX modifier for that attack or ws coupled with it (on thf main).

To me the fact that they are giving WAR a auto-crit JA is saying that they are going to do more Tank and Spank fights, like how everyone used to do Sky gods. Get 100 TP doing minimal damage, then bust out huge WSs. Not having to sub THF to do those WS's is a plus, and in such fights only really increases WARs defense.

Does it subtract from THF? No.
Does it overpower WAR? Well, yes. In Abyssea, but we all know we're leaving.

Forced crits have still always been THFs domain. As long as it doesn't work on WSs I don't care really but if they are giving them something they used to have to /thf for when they are already overflowing with DD abilities I will be annoyed just like I was with climactic flourish.

P.S. People will be in abyssea til the servers go down.

[Concerned4FFxi]

climactic flourish is bs, so is war crit hit which more than likely will be used with ws just like the new drk ability that nerfs tp gain for increased damage will be used with ws

[SpankWustler]

just like the new drk ability that nerfs tp gain for increased damage will be used with ws

This doesn't even exist yet. Scarlet Delirium is being implemented instead, I assume, because it was a stupid idea.

I guess you aren't concerned enough to actually read the Job Adjustments post?

Edit: Also, Climactic Flourish works the way it does because Dancer gets saddled with weapon skills like Rudra's Storm which are designed to be forced to critical though job abilities. Rudra's Storm also happens to be the only reason a Dancer would use Climactic Flourish.

Edit II: The Editing: Man, the more I read this tiny post the more it confuses me. The Warrior ability to force a critical hit doesn't exist yet, either.