[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!

[Rambus]

Nah, your response doesn't make me mad. For me, you kind of contradicted yourself there. Why not leave Relic weapons for people with more time, but relics aren't even as good as Emp weapons anymore. So why argue with SE balancing things out. You said yourself, why bother with relic when emp weapon is far easier/better to get? That to me shows a balance issue, so why not let SE make it easier to get something no one even wants anymore? Well, that's an overgeneralization, of course people want them still. The thing is, Dynamis is old as hell. It's an antiquated system, and it desperately needs an update. I won't say that this is by far the best possible things SE could do with it, but I don't think there is any way anyone can say it doesn't need SOME sort of fix.

Oh, and for the duoing... That is something that is probably possible now, but will be even more possible when the level cap reaches 99. RDMs will most likely be soloing it when that happens, actually.

dammit -.- I am tried of loosing posts, I am re-reporting this issue.

anyways.

I am not sure how I contradicted myself so Ill try answer your questions and see where that brings us.

making relic weapons easier to get then emp weapons is not a fix. some emp weapons only do well inside abyssea. I would not of did my relic if there was no plans of upgrading them ( I got mine after magain trails) SE said they would boost relics even more then they have now ( 85>90 has 25% increase on ws) a lot of mythics have upgrades to job abilities.

some mythics are still crap some are really good, that alone shows SE does overlook things ( likethe effect of atma and emp weapons)

My main stance is if SE is going to change dyna they should really change dyna ( like let it appeal to 90/99) most people are abyssea only and it is really hell to get people to do other things. Making it easier to acess does not change how much people are abyssea only.

Surprise surprise... I'm going to post... lol...

1) I agree the bad apple spoils the bunch. There are a lot of threads on forums about people that screw thier shells over for a relic, steal the bank, etc. But last I checked, there's but a single thread cheering people on for getting thier Relic legitimately. It's a long thread, but one thread against many.

2) Someone posted here that there's not, and there are, people that read these forums that have a 100% legitimately earned relic. They just choose not to express that fact for fear of being lumped in with "Them" (with a capital T). As it might affect peoples' perceptions of the arguments they propose.

3) There's actually, amazingly, very few ways to do Dynamis, and even fewer ways that work. And I agree, it rare you ever hear/read someone refer to their relic as "The relic my shell got me". That's an exceptionally valid point.

4) You guys are generally right about the "Empyrean vs. Relic" debate. But the argument usually is misread form what I see. You hit the nail on the head with other things like Slavage gear vs. Empyrean vs. Abjuration gear. You're right, it was a kick in the teeth. It was like getting beat up really badly, but then when the beating was done, you realize that beating was not only the best massage you ever had, you walk away with a lollipop to boot.

In the case of Empyreans vs Relics, you need to look at timing...

And here's where I go off on one of my long winded posts:

At the time Relic holders in order to just keep up with easily attained Stat+X weapons needed to kill in upwards of like 3,500 mobs or whatever initially with a killshot from a relatively underpowered weaponskill. With the only known reward, that once they are done with the trials, it would only be a few damage more than the next best alternative.
Empyreans existed, but no mention of the weaponskills were made just yet, and they seemed out of reach for just a cool looking weapon.

Later hey added weapons that were just drops off mobs that offered close to the same stats as the relics and let people use the exclusive weaponskill associated with it. Meanwhile Relic holders had to kill 4,500 more monsters in the same fashion as before, just to be within 1 base damage as said [free] weapons.

A little later the first Empyreans started to finally surface. As did their weaponskills...

Historically SE made the effort to make sure any relic holder had access to any/all weaponskills for that weapon. Empyreans had something that relics did not.

Relic holders already knew SE hosed relic holders in their weaponskills. They were typically pretty bad, getting blown out of the water in most cases by a weaponskill attained at level 60 (still are in some cases). The weaponskills that were just introduced at skill~300 were laughable at best(at the time). The first reports of the Empyrean weaponskills were startling and overwhelmingly powerful to say the least.

All the while SE kept assuring relic holders that "an update was coming" for relics.
If the update was killing 9,000 mobs...

So now it was more a matter of a broken promise in the face of "They DID have the resources to make good on that promise. But they decided not to."

it's less a matter of a "sense of entitlement", so much as it's SE promised something that never came. SE said they were going to enhance Relics BEFORE the level cap, and never did. Then made Empyreans when they could have fixed relics first.

While at the same time gave relic holders trials that would best be described as punishment.

Would that seem fair to you if you were a relic holder?

5) The "Just make an Empyrean" alternative. Sure. Let's help the guy with a relic get an Empyrean... Do you have any idea how low on the list of "People to help get an Empyrean" a relic holder would(should) be? "Hey my Mandau only does 3-4k Eviscerations, how 'bout y'all help me kill a bunch of Glavoids and THAT GOD DAMN FLEA FROM HELL WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS, how does that sound guys?"

Yeah.. exactly...

So yeah, after spending more money than any four people you know combined.
Going through linkshell politics for about two years, including whining, people stealing, ninja-lotting, whining, back-stabbing, leaving, coming back, whining, balancing zone variety, wiping, losing a glass, whining, people not passing and losing armor/coins, and whining...
Having to deal with knowing 25 or more people who are doing it for you, which is a lot of stress on your shoulders.
Running out of money and wondering how you're going to fund the next glass.
Being told "Yes we know they are under powered and we will fix them soon."
FOR TWO F'ING YEARS!!!

Then:
Having to kill 9,000 monsters with a weaponskill that's STILL underpowered.
While watching people get the Stat+x weapons stealing your mobs in massive alliances while you're trying to get a killshot. KNOWING thier weapons is probably better.

I can guarantee you, if I was a relic holder, every killshot would be like a reminder of how much I've been made a fool of. Every time that Weaponskill leaves a monster at 1% health... I could assure you, if I were a relic holder, I'd be murderous...

After all that.

You see some dude get a weapon that surpasses yours all the while having fun getting it, and rewarding everyone that helped HEAVILY with free +2 upgrade items in a matter of weeks.

Relic holders aren't mad at Empyrean holders. They're mad they weren't given any break, that they've been made a fool of. Dynamis is torture for most people, including people getting relics. It always delivered sub-par gear, and rarely at that. Getting and Empyrean is awesome fun. I've helped close to Eight people now get theirs. I know relic holders DO get angry when an Empyrean just throw salt on the wounds. I have yet to see an Empyrean owner, while in the face of a relic owner, not throw salt on the wounds.

That's all. They just want the promise made to be delivered.
And a little civility when they ask SE "Hey, what about that promise you made?"

If you made a relic with help then go "hey guys can you help me do emp bow now because its better then relic?" people will look at you like you have 4 eyes, like the person I quoted commented on.

it is where they have "5." if you dont want to read it all

I think he is talking about
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tunga
that, hate that damn thing

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Making it easier to acess does not change how much people are abyssea only.

This is wrong. Those people are abyssea only maining because of the accessability. Changing the zone as such makes it fairer for everyone.

[Rambus]

This is wrong. Those people are abyssea only maining because of the accessability. Changing the zone as such makes it fairer for everyone.

so is dyna so is savage so is assult, so is limbus, so is sky, so is sea. people do events for gear only, everything that is best is abyssea.

how can you tell me i am wrong when this is what people tell me?

and no abyssea is not accessablie to everyone. I could not access it for a time.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It's conciderably more so then once per day, once every 3 days and 500k just to get in.

[Rambus]

It's conciderably more so then once per day, once every 3 days and 500k just to get in.

so what? that does not change the fact people are abyssea only for gear.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

so what? that does not change the fact people are abyssea only for gear.

And people are only in the other only for gear. But the point is, dynamis should be accessable to everyone, not just a few self obsorbed end game shells.

[Rambus]

And people are only in the other only for gear. But the point is, dynamis should be accessable to everyone, not just a few self obsorbed end game shells.

it HAS BEEN omg....

people did 6-8 man farming back at 75 and each would walk out with 500k- 1 M profit.

how can you sit there say relics are easy gil is easy to get 200 M is nothing ( some of the comments i seen with the emp and relic threads) then sit there and act like 500k makes it not accessable to everyone?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

it HAS BEEN omg....

people did 6-8 man farming back at 75 and each would walk out with 500k- 1 M profit.

how can you sit there say relics are easy gil is easy to get 200 M is nothing ( some of the comments i seen with the emp and relic threads) then sit there and act like 500k makes it not accessable to everyone?

Most people can't get that 500k or the people. Openeing the zone makes it fair for the majority instead of the few.

[Rambus]

Most people can't get that 500k or the people. Openeing the zone makes it fair for the majority instead of the few.

SO emp weapons need to be easier?

It is not fair a group of people keep claiming goku or poping sobek.

all open zone does is allow group of people to keep killing NMs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

SO emp weapons need to be easier?

They are just as dificult for the individual. They take the same effort as relic. The difference is the zone accessability. Empyrean dose not need to be nurfed, relic dose not need to be boosted more.
Simply, everyone should have the chance to obtain them, not just a handfull of anti-update people seeking to retain their personal profits.