[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!

[Bulrogg]

It would be no different than swapping someone into main alliance in areas such as sea, sky, abyssea I would suppose.
I think that is what they are trying to do with Dynamis. Make it seem more like one of those areas to farm for gear.
Not that anything would be terrible about that either.

[Alhanelem]

I guess i just did not explain enough, SE is merging many server and at the same time they say how they going to reborn dynamis, instancing was maybe not much possible pre-merging, keep in mind they will have free resource and is maybe the reason why they are merging, did you ever think about it?

...

Instancing isn't an issue of sever capacity. If you could have 64 people in a dynamis area (something that rarely happened after the first few months of dynamis' release), there wouldn't be capacity problems if there were 4 groups of 16.

The issue is the method by which FFXI events achieve the appearance of instancing. BCNM areas, assaults and similar stuff are "instanced" by filling the game engine's world environment with several copies of the same section of terrain, spaced out so that they arent in range of shouting of eachother. If one copy of the battlefield or assault area is in use, the game puts the players into the next one. There are only a few of these copies, and if they are all full, more people can't enter. Dynamis areas are much larger and also more complex than battlefield areas. The assault areas and WotG battle zones rival that, but they are newer and were designed with Dynamis's issues in mind (or, that's the impression we get). In order to instance dynamis, the zones themselves would need to be rebuilt, which would be a major undertaking (and it would also make the size of the data for the zones larger, at a time when the game is running out of disk space on the console versions)

Other games achieve instancing by using special server machines to handle the instanced areas, and give every group it's own bonafide private area to work in. The number of instances is only limited by server capacity (which can be reasonably increased if need be)

They cannot instance dynamis without changing the physical structure of the area in the game data itself. This is something that they are unable or possibly unwilling to do for some reason or another (The fact that there are invisible walls in Upper Jeuno that have been there since the beginning of time can attest to unlikelyhood of physical changes to the zones).

I'm not sure what the problem was with my last post, but I hope this explanation is helpful- I really didn't intend to be rude.. This was discovered by people who analyzed the data files, explored the game's areas in model viewers, etc. Mordion Gaol, the game's jail for instance, is literally made up of a bunch of small "cells" stacked on top of each other out of shout range. This is well known by people who have analyzed the game.

The one thing I could see them doing, is turning different groups of people in the same area invisible to eachother, something that is done during Ballista matches. Players and monsters not participating in ballista are invisible (and don't collide with to the people that are in the ballista match). This could work, but might result in lag with no visible explanation to the player if lots of other groups (which are invisible) are physically near eachother (because the invisibility is done client side as far as I can tell- but i'm not 100% sure here)

[Ilax]

Other games achieve instancing by using special server machines to handle the instanced areas, and give every group it's own bonafide private area to work in. The number of instances is only limited by server capacity (which can be reasonably increased if need be)

SE is merging how many server again? I agree it was impossible pre-merge since it request too much load to the server, but if you think about it, who know what SE will do with those server? Nothing say they can't create instanced dynamis. Is not like they have to modify the game that much. Plus note how they announced the server merge and dynamis change at almost same time.

All i know is SE said: *Reservations will no longer be required to enter the above areas.*

Nothing in that say is going to be open zone, i was assuming at first it would be since i knew like you that is too hard for 1 server to handle it, but i was not thinking about all those server they about to free up after the merge. Of course is pure speculation from me, i can be wrong but i think is fair to think that is possible, and to be honest, i think 95% community would be crazzy happy if is the case.

If is open zone, then be it too, i mean there many way they can issue all the problem we listed, like what Flunklesnarkin said in previous post:

I'm thinking something like fov elite regimes... you have to be in the party when the NM is spawned to help with the fight or cure people.. and you lose your KI after its spawned.

That would also be nice, or as i said if multiple group can enter in at same time, i just hope at least is still possible for each group to get 250+ currency. That way every group have they chance to finish a relic over time. If is 250 currency split to all group that enter, then is just a new Campaign style system but ya again that still cool due to fact no reservation + LS still have CoP zone and fact that everyone can go in and get 5~6 currency every day.

What is going to be, no one really know, i just hope SE surprise us with something awesome, only 1 week left till we find out.

[Nephilipitou]

I have issues with what the topic creators first points are.

I understand that FFXI is taking a more "WoW" approach to appeal to the teens with A.D.D who need everything quickly and with ease, but being able to not hit that lump like paying 500k per dynamis will allow Gil Farms to jump on a bandwagon and ease on in.

Well ya if you piss on my head and call it rain I guess you could say that. I would say it's just a natural evolution to a game that is losing people faster than it's gaining people, while also raising the level cap.

75 is the halfway mark in exp to 90. 90 is the halfway mark in exp to 99 most likely. The increased exp in areas outside of Abyssea are to make it to where leveling outside of Abyssea feels productive for those that want to do it. Abyssea's massive exp is important because without a way to gain massive exp it'd take you 4x the exp it took to get from 1-75 to get to 99. How many people are going to keep playing the game if it takes THAT long to hit max. People were like "Well it takes about 6 months to a year for me to get a job fully leveled" well ya know what? Now it'd take you 2 years to 4 years to get a single job capped at the same exp rate you were already going at.

There'd be no possible way to keep FFXI going in large numbers with those kinds of exp gains. So what you're saying is just flat out a misinterpretation.

The other changes that have been made such as easier skill ups, cheaper Dynamis fees, and other things, are a response to the fact that as things evolve and change, there are other things to try and balance. The problem with Gilselling is everyone has the chance to get an unlimited amount of gil. If you just do Abyssea for a while and then use Cruor to exchange into items, and then sell those to the NPC for tons of gil. So they could have 13 afks, and 3 people for a Fell Cleave party, and if they don't stop doing the fell cleave party they could gain any number of Cruor they wanted then just stock up on items, NPC, stock up, NPC, Stock up, NPC and boom they have as much gil as they could desire on 16 different characters and that's way easier than going to dynamis for farming crap.

So I really just have to say that you don't have the slightest clue of what you're arguing about. Maybe I'm wrong, but if gil sellers were going to return, I feel like they would have done it at this point. Because quite frankly, making gil is easier than ever.

You can leech in a Fell Cleave party for 100k an hour and literally make all that gil you spent back in no time at all. Which is to say... before your time is up. And Fell Cleave isn't something they could really easily prevent. It's a product of having strong AoE attacks and a lot of good equips and Atma. They'd essentially have to create limits on how fast you can kill mobs in an alliance and get exp, which I don't think anyone would be asking for them to do.

So please tell me how your arguments are in any way shape or form valid. Plus I personally don't have any jobs to 90 that can use a relic. So... Dynamis means zilch to me at the moment until someone can tell me what dynamis offers me in some form.

[Ilax]

@Nephilipitou, don't take it as offense, but abyssea cost them nothing and they can cleave and sell gil

Think it was his main worry, dynamis had 500k + strategy that require more then 3 player with 15 leecher, maybe you just misunderstood his point.

Please don't misunderstand me too, i am very happy that SE give a battle field that everyone can level super fast, but what is the point if everything turn abyssea, Why are we leveling again? I mean i am happy that a new player come play FFXI and can hit 90 in 1 week then join us for something harder.

Dynamis means zilch to me at the moment until someone can tell me what dynamis offers me in some form.

Is just another play field that require cooperation with multiple player, not everyone loved the idea. I mean you can find same frustration form every event (abyssea/jar/sky/ect.)

[Flunklesnarkin]

Well i can put your minds at ease..

In the original statement from the dev team.. linked in the OP

the dev team states drops and mobs will work like any normal area / dungeon..

dynamis will be similar to sky / sea.. each party will get their own loot pool..

and it will be an open area.. just like sky / sea

[Ilax]

Well i can put your minds at ease..

In the original statement from the dev team.. linked in the OP

the dev team states drops and mobs will work like any normal area / dungeon..

dynamis will be similar to sky / sea.. each party will get their own loot pool..

and it will be an open area.. just like sky / sea

I agree with that, but they never said you can enter with more then 18 player, could be instanced to 1 alliance max. again is pure speculation, think about it if is instanced and you only need KI then it have to be 18 player max.

[Alhanelem]

SE is merging how many server again?

This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not instancing is possible.

(And when those servers are shut down, the equipment will either be sold or used for other purposes, not to increase the capacity of the existing servers)

Nothing say they can't create instanced dynamis. Is not like they have to modify the game that much.

Did you not read the almost-essay like explanation I gave you? They CAN'T (realistically) create instanced dynamis without MAJOR, TECHNICAL changes to the game and the areas themselves. What they are doing instead is much simpler (Keep in mind they do not have the same number of people working on the game as 9 years ago), requiring only changes to scripts and flags/numbers pertaning to monsters and NPCs and such. To instance dynamis they might possibly even need to go get people who are now busy on other porjects or maybe even moved to a different company to make the code changes. To ask some newer guy on the project would cost them a lot more time and money and you have to realize that with the age of the game and the size of the playerbase, they need to keep the changes economically sound.

Look, I might not work for SE, but I know more about the inner workings of the game than you do. I'm not just some random guy who has no clue what he's talking about. If you really want to learn more about how things work, I'd be happy to indulge you, but we would have to talk about it somewhere else (e.g. on a fan site forum).

PLEASE read this and my last post fully and carefully. I have every intention of being helpful but I can only do so much if you can't get the thrust of what I'm saying.

I agree with that, but they never said you can enter with more then 18 player, could be instanced to 1 alliance max. again is pure speculation, think about it if is instanced and you only need KI then it have to be 18 player max.

It is not instanced. Again, please, set aside your speculation and get informed on the subject. It is going to be an open area, more like abyssea than anything else. This is pretty well established from the information we have been given. Yes, you can only have 18 people in an alliance, but they are not in an instance obviously the adjustments to monster placement will take that into account, and if you need to bring more people, you can just shuffle them between the groups as needed for the right person to get the stuff. Give SE a little credit here. You don't even need 18 people in the current dynamis system for anything other than dynamis lord or maybe weapon fragments.

[Ilax]

What your are saying is also pure speculation, don't derail it more....

Please again Alhanelem.. lets keep this thread constructive..

[Flunklesnarkin]

Open area.. like any normal field zone.. means just that.. open area.. no player limits.