[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!

[Atomic_Skull]

SE said that overall, they expect more currency to be produced. Since people don't have to shell out 500k for a shot at currency, prices of currency will drop. This is a Good Thing, not a bad thing.

Actually they did not. What they said was that they expect greater currency DISTRIBUTION across the servers, not that more currency will enter the server.

It's apparent that SE doesn't want relics to become easier to upgrade, they just want to eliminate exploitation.

Also, if they are going to the bother of completely remaking Dynamis and NOT making relics easier to obtain I expect there will be additional "new and worse" Relic upgrade stages added as well.


I wouldn't be surprised if they crank up the difficulty to be a challenge to lvl 90+ players either.


However if they make it so that relics are actually worth the time to upgrade vs empyreans I'm fine with it. But if relics remain second best behind weapons that take a week or two to upgrade it'll just be a bad joke.

[Naturebeckles]

Actually they did not. What they said was that they expect greater currency DISTRIBUTION across the servers, not that more currency will enter the server.

.

Quoted from the original development post:

"Treasure:
There are no plans to change the drop rate of Relic equipment.
Along with the reduction of the entry time restriction, the amount of Ancient Currency earned per session will be lowered. Overall, this change should increase the Ancient Currency distributed across the World."

But really? you're going to mince words with somebody just so you sound smarter than them? The way I read this, SE DOES indeed expect more currency in the servers because of the fact you will be able to do Dynamis every day instead of once every three days even with the decrease in currency drops. Don't sit there and correct people just because they word the same concept differently than you.

[Alhanelem]

Never was an event so monopolized to make 1 individual rich on the backs of everyone else's work.

I don't know anyone who "got rich" off dynamis. It was the players who sold coins who put a value on them. The people who sponsored runs did not make money, thay paid out millions.

There were some people who claimed to be going for a relic but then sold the currency, and I'd agree that those people sucked. But pushing a relic is (or maybe was) the only way to complete a relic in a reasonable amount of time (e.g. less than a year). Even if you had 999,999,999 gil, it would have taken forever to buy the currency from bazaars.

This change is for the better- mostly eliminating the cost of dynamis and making it an open area will both make relics easier to get and making the currency cheaper and eliminate all the hate, but stop labeling run sponsors as horrible people. For the most part, they're not.

If you feel you're being exploited, you have the right and ability to get out at any time. If you're honestly interested in helping someone get a relic, you have every right and ability to stay. All I know is the leaders of my shell were good people and did not walk all over everyone or behave in ways the group didn't approve. And they continued to run dynamis after relics were completed.

No matter who you are, as far as I can tell, everyone wins with these changes. I just don't like seeing people be unfairly hated on.

[Randwolf]

I don't know anyone who "got rich" off dynamis. It was the players who sold coins who put a value on them. The people who sponsored runs did not make money, thay paid out millions.

There were some people who claimed to be going for a relic but then sold the currency, and I'd agree that those people sucked. But pushing a relic is (or maybe was) the only way to complete a relic in a reasonable amount of time (e.g. less than a year). Even if you had 999,999,999 gil, it would have taken forever to buy the currency from bazaars.

This change is for the better- mostly eliminating the cost of dynamis and making it an open area will both make relics easier to get and making the currency cheaper and eliminate all the hate, but stop labeling run sponsors as horrible people. For the most part, they're not.

If you feel you're being exploited, you have the right and ability to get out at any time. If you're honestly interested in helping someone get a relic, you have every right and ability to stay. All I know is the leaders of my shell were good people and did not walk all over everyone or behave in ways the group didn't approve. And they continued to run dynamis after relics were completed.

No matter who you are, as far as I can tell, everyone wins with these changes. I just don't like seeing people be unfairly hated on.

I think a lot of people have had bad experiences around the getting other people relics thing. It doesn't mean it always bad. But, I know that some of the following have occurred and probably really soured people on the sponsor thing:

1) Your point about those who actually sold the currency they were getting
2) Who was allowed to sponsor runs was based not on fairness but who the leaders liked
3) Dynamis Schedule was dictated by what one individual needed, even if a lot of people wanted gear from a different zone
4) Dynamis was a mandatory event so there wasn't a choice if you wanted to stay in the shell
5) In some shells, the sponsor couldn't lot relic gear. But some do allow the sponsor to lot gear
6) Most shells, especially before the cap was raised, required people to provide food, meds, and RR (so it wasn't cost free)
7) People got their relic and suddenly 'vanished'
8) When it came their turn to get to sponsor, so many people had left, the shell broke

There are shells out there are totally fair and the people getting to sponsor are good people. But, I think a lot of people have had experience with shells that did do things which might be considered unfair. This is probably why you don't see a lot of sympathy from the player base on how the changes affect people who sponsor runs. Again, in fairness, it isn't every shell that has sponsors that gives sponsor runs a bad name. But, there are enough of them that people have had an opportunity to experience the negative.

[Ilax]

1) Your point about those who actually sold the currency they were getting

That part just opened a door to RMT to sell gil to player that wanted to buy currency to get relic.

No matter the SOURCE of the story is the same to me, if is an HNM LS that sell ridill for 100m to GIL buyer, and that HNM buy relic with that GIL, then to me is from same source: RMT.

If you think Mr. Anybody buy currency by farming on they own (260m overpriced currency) then i am sorry but you really off track... back in the time was same story as it is today: 1 relic = 6~8month. So let say 52~68 run, so the real cost always been 52~68m until SE reduce glass to 500k, so 26m to 34m. Who the hell would pay 260m when real cost is 34m max????

2) Who was allowed to sponsor runs was based not on fairness but who the leaders liked
I leaded dynamis long time enough to know the real story about that

I can't talk for every linkshell, but i can state easy the reality of it, is not because you joining an linkshell that they have to work for you, and take a ticked and hope they choose you. Causing drama, show only 1/10, lot again everyone on AFv2 just because you love collect trophy, just piss off everyone in general just because you think you better then anyone, RESULT = No Thanks to Sponsor. Then if you pass all these test and been very present, then hope you lucky enough to be next on sponsor because there probably 10 other member like you. You don't like it? Make your own LS, but for god shake don't complain and claim 'IS UNFAIR'.

Dynamis Schedule was dictated by what one individual needed, even if a lot of people wanted gear from a different zone

Same as #2...

4) Dynamis was a mandatory event so there wasn't a choice if you wanted to stay in the shell

Of course, how you would like no one show when is the zone you need AF? Once again is selfish thinking, these kind of rule is to keep the group tight and make them able to success an event.

5) In some shells, the sponsor couldn't lot relic gear. But some do allow the sponsor to lot gear

In mine, sponsor never been allowed to lot on AF/Shadow gear/Accessory, even more rude then that, they had to be 1 yr minimum in the LS and they loose all they point as soon they sponsor 1 run. And trust me if i would see someone spend all they point on AF pre-sponsor, he would loose his chance. Chose your camp, you in for AF or for currency, because trust me i will take the member who did not rush to spend his point pre decision on next sponsor. Some might think leader are retarded and enough blind to not see it, trust me we not that dumb.

6) Most shells, especially before the cap was raised, required people to provide food, meds, and RR (so it wasn't cost free)

I never asked any of my member to bring such of item, for CoP zone, Xar, etc where you need poison pot or special medic, our sponsor always take care of the cost and ppl could buy it from they bazaar for 1 gil... For re-raise item we always got the same rule since day 1 of our dynamis. We offer random raise on wipe, if that is not enough for you then bring your RR2 pin, if you really wan R3, no problem we charging you point for it. [Not like there no alternative, and no we never been there to do babysitting] I was loosing 20~30k experience every Xarcabar just sac pulling everything to avoid too many of our member die (Of course that could have been avoid with skilled RDM.....) What can i say, you deal with what you have, ask anyone how many time my THF de-leveled to 74... NONE.... So ask me if i care for the player that die 1x and cry like a little baby: R3 onry! Even more funny when that one ask you for sponsor...

7) People got their relic and suddenly 'vanished'

That what happen when your leader accept anyone and have weak rule. Never happen once in my dynamis ls, and trust me that might never happen. There always a true risk, but as i stated we been enough selective to figure it out right.

8) When it came their turn to get to sponsor, so many people had left, the shell broke

This is why is the VERY IMPORTANT that who is about to sponsor is respected by everyone in the LS, once again if your leader put an a$$-h#le as sponsor, don't question yourself why everyone left.[/quote]

There are shells out there are totally fair and the people getting to sponsor are good people. But, I think a lot of people have had experience with shells that did do things which might be considered unfair. This is probably why you don't see a lot of sympathy from the player base on how the changes affect people who sponsor runs. Again, in fairness, it isn't every shell that has sponsors that gives sponsor runs a bad name. But, there are enough of them that people have had an opportunity to experience the negative.

I agree on that, i was myself in a unfair linkshell, i got shafted many time.... At the end i was doing all the duty job for the LS, as promise i would be able to sponsor... Guess what, when that time come he decided to take his friend instead of me to sponsor.... Guess what more insulting? His friend was a 1 week old member, versus me with him since start (2yr long). My reaction been simple, i left and created my own LS that ended to be more successful in 1 week as i stated in my other post. (our LS on 4th relic completion in last 2yr).

Dynamis is such of hardcore event, is more then only bashing on mob for Af/Relic... well... used to be... I guess new option for relic is buy currency from everyone after this update. Dream on if you think you can get one for 34m after this update.

[Alhanelem]

If this is instanced

It's not instanced. It's an open area, like an abyssea area. FFXI does not have instancing (Assault is not "instanced." it has multiple copies of each little area out of shout range of eachother and one party can occupy each.)

[Ilax]

As much i love dynamis, who say i wan do it more then 2x/week? [8h total] Now just imagine who hated it...

They better find something that interest everyone for sure. It always been open everyday. For who was fighting to enter on wed/sun, that also wont change anything for them, oh ya except is 'an open zone'. The only real result i can see about all this is how the currency going to be spread out around server, and as i stated don't even think to be able do a relic for 34m anymore, be ready to pay 200m+ for it. Hello Gil buyer, because i don't know anyone that can spend that much....

Now for who is again super positive about it and saying i am so wrong with my argument, let see again... you need ~17,500 currency, at 2k each = 35m... Average drop per run as it is atm is 300 currency, 300 * 2k = 600k total will drop from every run but spread to how many, 32~64 player? Let see what we obtain:

600k / 32 member = 18.75k each for doing dynamis 4h long not bad right? A good 4.6875k profit per hours.
600k / 64 member = 9.375k each for doing dynamis 4h long not bad right? A good 2.34375k profit per hours.

Now let say you REALLY LUCKY and only 16 player are in the zone.

600k / 16 member = 37.5k each for doing dynamis 4h long not bad right? A good 9.375k profit per hours.

I mean are you really going to do that????? Seriously that bullshit, no way anyone would spend 1 hours of they time for 9.3k, a damn ring in gold box from abyssea sell to NPC for 34k, give me a break...

See the Real REALITY OF THIS IS: Everyone wan a good reward out of what they are doing, and can be sure they wan at least do a good 25k/hours right? We not a bunch of slave... So let reform all the math with a decent number (25k x4h = 100k)

16 player wan 100k each = 1,600,000 gil, expect currency to be at minimum 1,600,000/300 = 5.3k per currency
32 player wan 100k each = 3,200,000 gil, expect currency to be at minimum 3,200,000/300 = 10.6k per currency
64 player wan 100k each = 6,400,000 gil, expect currency to be at minimum 6,400,000/300 = 21k per currency

Don't some see the market here???? 32 player average, hello demand/offer??!?!? So let continue with all this, we said you need 17,500 currency, so let just ignore 16 member and 64, let go with average 32, 17,500 * 10.6k = 185,500,000 Gil.

Did i forget something? Oh yes i did, SE tell us the number of currency per run will be reduced, WHAT? So expect my current math to be wrong, and is actually going to be even more expensive to do a relic. So please people stop dreaming, and pay more attention how game mechanic/economy really work.

The real question is how much you think you should get for 1h out of this event? 185m relic = ppl expect to get 25k per hours, again who still dream about relic?....

Oh for GIL buyer, lmao they going to be ALL HAPPY, IRL price wont change much for them and the availability of currency going to be all up for them....

so who win out of all this? Wake up people.

[SIZE="7"]REFUSE THIS UPDATE[/SIZE]

[Alhanelem]

Oh yes i did, SE tell us the number of currency per run will be reduced, WHAT?

Only to the extent to keep the currency situation from being totally flooded because you can now go SEVEN DAYS A WEEK INSTEAD OF 2 DAYS MAX.

In other words, you can go 3 times more often, but the currency rate will probably only be adjusted slightly. Therefore more currency goes out over all, it's just in the hands of a larger number of people.

[immaturemode]
[SIZE=7]ACCEPT THIS UPDATE
[/immaturemode]
[/SIZE]

[Ilax]

Oh wow.. you obviously read nothing of my post, thanks you Alhanelem to post blindly.

I have 3 question now for you, i hope you can answer 1 of them, just 1, because, if no then you just doing it on purpose to troll me. Also your comment is impersonating me, take more time to read forum policy & rule.

#1 How much you would be ready to pay for your relic? (Gil of course)
#2 How much gil per hours you think is a good reward for you?
#3 How many hours you think is acceptable to finish a relic?

And please elaborate how this update is so awesome, it is because you can now enter 7 day in a row instead 2day a week, are you really telling me you or anyone left dynamis because they could only spend 8 hours a week? I leaded dynamis for way too long, 95% already hated the time sink dynamis was.

** Edit **

[GIL buyer]
[SIZE="7"]ACCEPT THIS UPDATE[/SIZE]
[/GIL buyer]

*impersonating you as you do calling me immature my friend with my own content.

[Alhanelem]

Oh wow.. you obviously read nothing of my post, thanks you Alhanelem to post blindly.

I didn't post blindly, and I did read your post. God, I'm really sick of that cop out. Address the response instead of attacking the person. It's also ridiculous to suggest that I'm "impersonating" you. I've never claimed to be you, fool people into thinking i'm you, or done anything that even remotely resembles impersonating. sarcastically imitating a silly remark you made is not impersonating.

I'm not answering your questions because they're not relevant. My opinions about how long a relic should take or how much it should cost have nothing to do with whether these dynamis changes are good or not.

are you really telling me you or anyone left dynamis because they could only spend 8 hours a week?

No... where would you get that idea? There are a few key problems with the current system.

1) Only one group can do a particular run. Since you can only run every three days (usually twice a week rather than literally every 3 days), you usually plan it in advance. Inevitiably, given that th ere are many dynamis groups that run in the same time periods and a limited number of areas to go to, people will want to do the same area at the same time. Rarely do people cooperate and work some deal out. usually it results in one group rushing to get in before the other one, thus leaving the other group pissed and forced to do something different from what they had planned weeks ago.
2)Dynamis is (usually) over 4 hours long. Many people play for a while every day but don't have time for a 4+ hour event, or won't be able to do anything else that day. By allowing people to go in every day for a shorter time period, it becomes more accessible to people with less time and also becomes more enjoyable (in my opinion) because it doesn't drag on for so long.
3)The 72 hour cooldown makes it difficult to schedule the event at the most convenient times for you and your group. Hence the change to 24 hours.
4)It wasn't a big deal for me, but some more hardcore people probably DID not like the maximum amount of time they could farm in a week. SE hasn't given us what the new time limits will be, but given that X and BCD are too big areas to traverse and kill much stuff in an hour, as well as most people who go are not going to want to do it absolutely every day, I'm sure it will be more than a 1 hour max, and the hardcore people will probably be able to get more than 8 hours in dynamis in a week if that's what they really want.

I leaded dynamis for way too long, 95% already hated the time sink dynamis was.

All the more reason this update is a good idea. A few hours here and there when you feel like doing it > locked into a twice a week, excessively long period of time to be running.

I don't see how this update is bad for anyone but the most stubborn purists who can't stand anything they're used to being changed in any way, regardless of whether the changes are good or not.