Suggestion regarding March 27 enmity adjustments

[Phafi]

With the overall decrease to enmity from damage and the possibility of actual tanking returning, could the enmity of the spells Sleep, Sleep II, Dispel, Blind, Blind II, and Bind be reinstated so that NIN/DRK and RDM/NIN can return as options to compete with PLD?

Back at LV75, tanking on RDM/NIN was the highlight of my play time, and when it was nerfed with the increase to the level cap, it kind of felt like finding out that Santa wasn't real.

[Himrik]

Santa...isn't...real
RDM...isn't...supposed...to...tank

[Horadrim]

Santa...isn't...real
RDM...isn't...supposed...to...tank

Neither was Ninja. And the Japanese pitched a royal fit about NINs tanking for ages before it became a standard that SE embraced.

with damage and cures being slashed, PLD would probably need a reverse-tranquil heart trait for cures to be any decent if the enmity reduction of cures is even around half of that of damage. another thing could be to have atonement not apply to the damage reduction, but that just seems lopsided toward pld leaving no room for ninja or any other tank. putting the enmity of these spells back in would revive multiple ways to tank

/rant

I think that's the unspoken reality behind the information we've been given. They claim to be fixing PLD tanking and they are giving us a job which purportedly attempts to maintain hate in a very similar fashion -- the only reality can be that they are giving Paladin + Enmity Traits to go along with the changes to defense that will allow it to take less damage and loss less health.

The only real way Paladin will be able to work is if they get +Enmity sustain/accumulation traits -- and a lot of them. And it can't be Rune Fencer getting them for sub, or else we'll just see semi-Magic immune Ninja/Rune Fencers running around and Paladin will get left out in dust like it has been.

[Demon6324236]

RDM is supposed to melee, tanking was a bi-product of RDM meleeing due to the advantage of Fast Cast and Shadows together.

[Phafi]

i'm fairly sure i never meleed while tanking do to unnecessary TP feed

also @Himrik, if you watch the old AV strat video from a few years ago, they did in fact use a RDM as one of the tanks

[Himrik]

Few years ago, RDM was the pinnacle of bad game design.
When a game offers as mush as 20 jobs, you can't have one job that can cure, nuke, melee, tank, buff and debuff efficiently at the same time.

[Phafi]

and now it can done one of those slightly better than a white mage or scholar (enfeeble), and on all content, you either can forgo or manage without the +1 tier of paralyze, slow and dia. so why bother bringing one at all?

[ManaKing]

You could never do all of those things at the same time, since you can't do more than 1 thing at the same time. RDM can transition between multiple job roles with competency. I don't think you could call any of those functions efficiently compared to any specialist that did what they did, but better. The only exception to this being pinning and kiting mobs, and honestly if you think that's anything special then you probably think going to the bathroom for two hours is special as well.

Everyone should go back to having hate tools and having the ability to pull hate if they don't know what they are doing. And should be able to pull hate if that is their intention. That's what a hate system is. Managing your hate to manipulate mobs.

[Phafi]

You could never do all of those things at the same time, since you can't do more than 1 thing at the same time. RDM can transition between multiple job roles with competency. I don't think you could call any of those functions efficiently compared to any specialist that did what they did, but better. The only exception to this being pinning and kiting mobs, and honestly if you think that's anything special then you probably think going to the bathroom for two hours is special as well.

Everyone should go back to having hate tools and having the ability to pull hate if they don't know what they are doing. And should be able to pull hate if that is their intention. That's what a hate system is. Managing your hate to manipulate mobs.

hell, there's a video somewhere around (too lazy to go find it) of a blm/nin tanking byakko back at 75

[Himrik]

I don't think you could call any of those functions efficiently compared to any specialist that did what they did, but better. The only exception to this being pinning and kiting mobs, and honestly if you think that's anything special then you probably think going to the bathroom for two hours is special as well.

Everyone should go back to having hate tools and having the ability to pull hate if they don't know what they are doing. And should be able to pull hate if that is their intention. That's what a hate system is. Managing your hate to manipulate mobs.

You apparently forgot that RDM was a specialist back in the days of lvl 75. Debuff was his job, and buffing was pretty high too. Refresh has always been the best way to recover MP, whitout using your two only buff spot of having trouble positionning yourself. Since RDM could main heal a PT (And where frequently asked to), they certainly could Cure efficiently.

Every job shouldn't have a hate tool, non tanks should have abilities that pull hate as a drawback, not as a hate tool. The fact that RDM could tank means that they could build more hate than frontline jobs (Something even a PLD, the specialist tank, had a hard time doing), and survive direct assaults long enough for the PT to kill the mob.

Sorry to disagree, but soloing, even for two hours, is pretty special compared to other jobs, who just can't solo.
A good hate system shouldn't give you hate for dispelling nothing or casting sleep when the mob is immune to it.