Quote Originally Posted by Ramaza View Post
You assumed wrong. I'm making this argument for the fact that we can't keep with a lot of DDs in the game. I don't know why you assumed the other, and yes WE ARE A DD CLASS just like any other pet job. We just currently aren't a very attractive DD class for endgame content. Its the community at large that continues to treat the class as the throw away position the class is currently in, and for good reason, because its a challenge to even keep up with other DD let alone be competitive. And no it would not make us overpowered, giving us Dual wield 2-3 isn't going to make us do better than a well geared Ukon/Resolution WAR or DRK or a weall geared SAM or a well geared DRG. One handed DD already have it rough versus 2 handers and the Motenten spreadsheets (dat math) can prove that.

Double attack+10% won't bridge a gap like that to borderline brokeness, neither will 25% attack bonus from Berserk, but what it can do is make us more competitive and attractive in a party situation. Even when you factor in Snarl its still not as broken as your over exaggerating it to be, do to the fact that most of the things worth doing anymore have powerful AoE's, so the pet is bound to die sooner or later even with max potency reward and recast down. Just like DRG with Jumps/Super Jump down we have just as much chance to die even with our hate erase abilities.

Nothing that BST currently excels at is worth being mitigated to nothing more than low man content whore ala Dynamis, Salvage etc. At least let us be competitive like a PUP/WAR can be. Unless you think PUP/WAR is currently broken.
100% on board with you. I've written a few times about beast utility in partys, and the general advice is for the other DD to back off until the pet has a buttload of hate, like you used to have people do with a conventional tank. The reason is the vast majority of bsts have gearred themselves for pet durability. The thing simply can't hold hate against a par or above DD, so if you are hoping the pet will keep the party alive (what most party builders seem to think is going to happen) you assume wrong. The other DD piling the TP on to the mob means that your pet is eating a hell of alot more specials than they do solo and pet healing simply can't keep up, at least without your own semi trailer full of dawn mulsums at party kill speeds.

oh, and speaking as someone who plays pup in end-game content, pup/anything is not OP, we're just nicely at the top end of DD with Sam and Drk when you add our auto's numbers to ours, IF you are using a DD auto. More often than not I'm running a whm auto to back-up heal in partys, necessary because almost every DD melee player on the servers these days is gearing for max DPS and forgetting the part about your prey WILL hit back, and while /dnc with a couple curing waltz 3 is nice a whm bombing Cure VI and erase is even nicer. Of course, the whm auto means our DD suffers (even with him hasting us) and takes us off the top end of DD. still, hella fun