Enmity System Explanation and Planned Adjustments

[Asymptotic]

RDM probably doesn't get adjusted because JPs love RDM

[Horadrim]

All actions produce 1 CE minimum so obviously it produces some hate, just not much. The reason pets keep losing hate is because they gimp compared to players. Damage from pets took the same reduction that players received. Whatever hate the pet is generating is being instantly lost when they take damage and so when the SMN use's that 1 CE ability it puts them 1CE over their pet.

Seems that all pet actions would, therefore, be incredibly volatile, which explains why PUP and its Automaton have such volatile hate relationships.

[RAIST]

Blood Pacts, Retreat, and Release do not generate enmity, and as such were not included in the list.

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE have some people thoroughly research this, because it is NOT working that way in practice.

I can let my avatar beat a mob in SoA areas for a bit, and as soon as I fire a BP: Rage, I HAVE EXCEEDED MY PETS HATE and the monster RUNS FOR ME. If it is a physical BP, (like Predator Claws, for example)---IT CAN PREVENT THE BP FROM FIRING, AND I AM NOW ON THE TOP OF THE HATE LIST UNTIL I CAN LAND A BP STRONG ENOUGH TO TAKE IT OFF ME.

Again.....PLEASE have someone test, sift through the code....whatever it takes. It may not be INTENDED to generate hate, but I assure you, at present it IS in fact generating LARGE amounts of hate.

If Blood Pacts are not meant to generate hate like this, then it is not working as intended and needs to be addressed ASAP.

[Sasaraixx]

Yes Camate, we'd all like some more explanation regarding the SMN comments. I don't think things are working they way the devs think.

Could we also get a response on whether there are any further changes planned for avatars or Summoners to deal with the out of balance enmity situation between the two?

[Nebo]

lots of stuff from 2005 and NIN not being viewed by SE as a tank

I'm not going to go look it up, but the dev team was quoted as saying something along the lines of "Ninja has cemented its place firmly in the tank role along side Paladins...and something something something"

It may have been at Vanafest...it's out there.

[Calamity]

One thing I find very disheartening about bst right now is, that after years, they finally gave us use for charm again, but due to the enmity changes, we are also now in a world where use of snarl is even more crucial than ever. Meaning you can melee with your jug pet, or stay well out of the fight with your charm pet. Something does need to be adjusting.

[Nebo]

The logic behind these two statements seem contradictory to me. Similar to blue mage, red mage is also very capable of withstanding a beating if they pull hate. Why, then, allow blue mage to potentially tank, but not red mage?

RDM is kinda in the same boat as THF. SE hates them.

"NOOOOO!!!! FILTHY RDM!!!! WHY YOU SORO MY SKY GODS!!!!!???"

RMT Killed THF for us. SE is still spouting bullshit like "We fear the past where you could Steal Gold coin => HIDE => Repeat" for reasons we can't have nice things NOW....even though that technique has not been possible for many, many years....and they have killed everything that was ever good about any thief-like ability the job ever had.

They have deep emotional wounds about the past apparently. Maybe we should get the development bros some counseling so we can get some job adjustments that are actually worth anything?

[saevel]

It was viable during certain parts of the game, particularly when the mob was invincible (or stoneskin) or PD'd? It was a helpful tool when kiting, just like using /nin ichi tool was. Cure kits were used by people who did know the enmity mechanics and why they did work, and when they didn't. PLD sucked against high defense mobs, besides SE's gift of Spirits Within, and much later, Atonement. Mobs could mitigate our offensive power, but how much we could heal for was all on us.

I loved the CE/VE system and that this game has the most complex (not "complicated") hate system of any game I've played. If you're good at it, you could watch it in action and understand exactly why the mob was doing what it was doing.

You might of missed the /RDM boat. (At that time) Bind / Blind spam created more hate then Cure spam could, eventually RDM's started using it to tank and SE swung it's nerf hammer. In either case PLD simply doesn't have enough MP to maintain cure spam unless your getting ballads, which means your not getting march's and thus doing less damage for even less CE generation. Eventually it was dumped as simply not viable though some very old PLD's refuse to accept that.

[Trumpy]

I cant believe this no emnity stuff on bloodpacts. before the changes i could let the avatar hit a couple times and then use a blood pact and get hate. which is always funny when im standin a bit in the distance and the mob comes to me and is suddenly too far for the bloodpact to go off and eats my timer.

also before when i was able to have the pet manage too keep hate occasionally it would lose it the mob would come at me and pound me then pet would get hate again id run away sometimes so far you coudlnt even see the mob and pet and id use stoneskin and the mob would come pound me and it feels like from then on i cant do anything to keep the mob on the pet.

on barspells i dont understand why barenfeebs last so much longer than barelems. when i use barelems they always run out before the fight is done. and i have capped enhancing. but since the expansion came out i swear to you that the barelems are alot shorter than they used to be. Is this intentional? It irritates me more now than it did before the expansion came out.

oh and if its things like rdm/nin ur worried about why lower emnity on ninjutsu that is not subjobable?

[Herby]

As others have pointed out: PLEASE for the love of God check on Blood Pact: Rage and Blood Pact: Ward again! Because they definately generate Enmity. If I assault on a Mob and use BP: Ward as soon as it's claimed, the mob turns IMMEDIATELY to me, the same goes for BP: Rage.

It's pretty unsettling that the Dev Team won't acknowledge that and if it's not intended to generate Hate, then it's bugged. both Abilities (Rage and Ward) in fact generate enough Enmity to make SMN Solo Play (almost) unplayable.