Enmity System Explanation and Planned Adjustments

[Acacia]

The defense/attack/survivability of a pet is commensurate with how 'cheap' they are.

BST pets have the most longevity because they cost gil and have a 5min recast. Avatars have the least longevity/hp because they are throw-away pets, they can be resummoned any time.

That made sense before the update because the gap between avatars stats and player stats was in good balance. Now players are getting much larger boosts to their attack/defense/attributes so the gap between avatars and players is much larger then before. Then with the enmity changes it makes that gap seem even larger.

[Sasaraixx]

that's where i took i think they may give smn's snarl... if that truly is the case, it is why I said that avatars can be an emergatank, but otherwise i believe that this would give summoners a huge use again...

That referred to giving avatars a trait, not giving SMN's a JA.

[Sasaraixx]

In the event that we add enmity to avatars, there may be situations that occur where executing a Blood Pact will cause the avatar to pull hate and make the monster face the opposite direction from the tank, or turn in a way that would be detrimental to the backline jobs. In order to avoid any unwanted movement of the target when executing Blood Pacts, the development team decided to go with the approach mentioned yesterday, so that Blood Pacts could be used without worrying about this.

And as we have all said, this concern is not serious enough to warrant not correcting the enmity issues that effect SMN's when they are playing solo or in small groups. I say it is not serious for 2 reasons: 1. the situations in which the avatar is likely to even pull hate and detrimentally effect the party are few and 2. the "problem" can be easily managed by either timing your Blood Pacts more carefully or making sure their positioning is correct. We don't mind actually having to use some skill to play our jobs effectively. Unless the dev team was planning a massive +enmity trait for avatars, I don't see how this is a problem.

And lastly, while the adjustments to Blood Pact enmity are very nice, they still won't solve the enmity problems we've been talking about. Unless you expect the SMN to do nothing but issue Blood Pact commands (and granted their were some situations where that was the case prior to the adjustments), the avatar *still* will not be able to keep hate off of the SMN or the other party members if playing in a small group.

I implore you to bring our concerns back to the dev team again. As you can see, almost all of the Summoners on both the Japanese and English forums are unhappy with the current situation and the planned adjustment. If the dev team thinks that adding a +enmity trait to avatars would be too much, perhaps they could considering adjusting the rate of decay of enmity for damage avatars do. Or perhaps they can add some kind of trait or job ability to the Summoner itself. Please, I ask that you reconsider this. This has the potential to ruin a pretty important aspect of play for the job.

[FrankReynolds]

In order to avoid any unwanted movement of the target when executing Blood Pacts, the development team decided to go with the approach mentioned yesterday, so that Blood Pacts could be used without worrying about this.

Ahhh... so this is for when you are killing a monster with nothing but bells as weapons and you don't want the avatar pulling hate off of the black mage that is tanking? /sarcasm

Avatars almost never pull hate in a group. This is a non issue. Please don't let them proceed based on this logic.

[saevel]

way to be insulting savael

Its the honest truth, if people can't face it then that's their issue.

That poster, along with most of the rest, have a severe lack of understanding how hate works in FFXI. That leads to some really dumb sh!t being said. "Super tanking" for example involves holding monsters without performing any action on them. This way your healer does not accumulate enmity by healing them as they don't have any hate on the monsters. If someone is "pulling" hate off a super tank then either the super tank f8cked up horribly, or that player did an action on the monster. The only known way to cause mobs to ignore the super tank involves a enmity glitch where a pet job releases their pet and in turn generates 1CE on everything in the area causing the monsters to ignore the super tank (who's at 0 TE) and go after that pet job.

His reference to healers suddenly pulling hate is a joke, Cure II / III / IV / Curaga all took the same enmity reduction that melee hits and WS's did. The only way a healer could pull hate is if the melee's are doing so little damage as to generate less TE then the healers cures do, which would of been the same problem three months ago as it is now.

The only cure that's been unbalanced is Cure V, which I would advice all WHM's to stop using. Cure V's static enmity was designed around level 60 CE coefficient levels. At target level 60 1HP cured would create 0.870 CE and 5.22 VE (it's usually CE x6). At level 75 it was 0.727 CE and 4.36 VE. At level 99 (pre patch) it was 0.579 CE and 3.47 VE per HP cured. Now it's 0.173 CE and 1.041 VE per HP cured. Cure V generates a static 400 CE and 700 VE. It becomes pretty obvious that it's a very bad idea to use it. Cure IV for 850 would generate 147 CE and 884 VE for 1031 TE. That Cure V would generate 1100 TE with 400 of it being CE which only goes down when you get hit. It's now far better to use Cure III / IV and Regen for healing then it is to spam Cure V as you'll eventually reach very high levels of CE.

All of this information is easily available at

http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20table!

People only need to stop being lazy and actually read.

[Volkai]

I'm hoping the enmity relating to the summon spells only refers to the enmity gained from their casting...

Why enmity would be reduced for Utsusemi is beyond me. That's kind of what a Ninja tanks with...

Kind of looks like they want to encourage the use of Elemental Ninjutsu spells for tanking / keeping hate.

[Areayea]

That referred to giving avatars a trait, not giving SMN's a JA.

it could be a good idea >.> for a JA I mean

[Raksha]

The only cure that's been unbalanced is Cure V, which I would advice all WHM's to stop using. Cure V's static enmity was designed around level 60 CE coefficient levels. At target level 60 1HP cured would create 0.870 CE and 5.22 VE (it's usually CE x6). At level 75 it was 0.727 CE and 4.36 VE. At level 99 (pre patch) it was 0.579 CE and 3.47 VE per HP cured. Now it's 0.173 CE and 1.041 VE per HP cured. Cure V generates a static 400 CE and 700 VE. It becomes pretty obvious that it's a very bad idea to use it. Cure IV for 850 would generate 147 CE and 884 VE for 1031 TE. That Cure V would generate 1100 TE with 400 of it being CE which only goes down when you get hit. It's now far better to use Cure III / IV and Regen for healing then it is to spam Cure V as you'll eventually reach very high levels of CE.

All of this information is easily available at

http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20table!

People only need to stop being lazy and actually read.

I smell WHM tanking!

[Economizer]

I smell WHM tanking!

With no mage food (+10 MND or INT doesn't count) meaning White Mages everywhere should be eating defense food, cureskin (since Afflatus Misery sucks despite being based around getting hit), decent magic defense stats, a bunch of high enmity spells (Curaga - especially IV/V, Cure V, Cure VI, Flash), and a way to generate MP (Dagan, Mythic Boon, or Starlight), we might just have a tank, especially if we see more of those super high defense Breastplates for White Mage in the future.

To top it all off, we have a guarantee from SE they won't lower the enmity on Cure VI.

[Caketime]

I'm a fan of tacos already, this just makes them more appealing.