Enmity System Explanation and Planned Adjustments

[Asymptotic]

Did you not read the dev post immediately before your post you or something?

Quoted because people only look at the last page:

Greetings,

The information mentioned yesterday about summoner's abilities and Blood Pacts not creating hate seems to have raised some questions, so I'd like to follow up on it.

To be precise, Blood Pacts have a non-volatile enmity value of 1. It's been arranged this way so that some enmity remains on the summoner when having a pet perform an action against a monster. If we were to make it so enmity was not placed on the summoner, once the enmity from the avatar is gone, it would cause bugs to occur (such as monsters becoming unclaimed). It's very similar to the way linked monsters don't come after the summoner once the avatar has vanished (except it would happen to the monster you perform the Blood Pact on).

In the case that the avatar's enmity has a minimum value of 1 for both non-volatile and volatile enmity, when executing a Blood Pact, the summoner will receive +1 to their non-volatile enmity, making a total of 2 non-volatile and 1 volatile enmity. When this happens, the target will go after the avatar.

As an adjustment, we are looking into the below:

• When the summoner has enmity, they will not receive +1 to non-volatile enmity when executing a Blood Pact. (The +1 to non-volatile enmity will only occur when the summoner's enmity value is 0.)

The above adjustment is not a job ability adjustment; it will be a change to the process occurring in the programming, so please give us a bit of time for this.

We had looked into taking another approach by adding an enmity+ stat to avatars like beastmaster's familiars have, and to ease up on the enmity lost when taking damage; however, this was geared more towards solo play and there are times when it would be best for avatars not to take hate during party battles, so we decided to adopt the adjustment mentioned above.

[Infidi]

On a somewhat different, but relevant note: Anyone know if there's any new pet: Emnity+ gear in the .dats?

[HimuraKenshyn]

With the new system seems best to have capped pet -dt gear full time.

[Sasaraixx]

We had looked into taking another approach by adding an enmity+ stat to avatars like beastmaster's familiars have, and to ease up on the enmity lost when taking damage; however, this was geared more towards solo play and there are times when it would be best for avatars not to take hate during party battles, so we decided to adopt the adjustment mentioned above.

This part is very troubling. The dev team decided to move with hurting SMN solo play based on reasoning that is faulty and not remotely a cause for concern.

Avatars pulling hate in a party setting is almost never a problem. Any situation where it would be, you likely won't have your avatar out at all to begin with. And in the few situations that is not the case, it's merely a matter of proper positioning and timing. Group dynamics. We like that kind of thing, right?

It also ignores the fact that 1. it is pretty difficult to pull hate anyway, 2. there are times when it would be beneficial to the party for the avatar to pull hate, and 3.it is very easy to remedy the problem by simply releasing the avatar. Let's also not forget that avatars have no hate generating capabilities, terrible DOT, and very little survivability outside of their elemental resistances. They would in no way interfere with tanking duties. In the rare situation where a party found itself with the avatar tanking, they would likely want to keep it that way so they can regroup.

The dev team wants to push party play and coordination but fail to realize that this is one of the (few) ways SMN can contribute to this dynamic. They just don't seem to have a grasp of how the job is played, solo or otherwise.

Please reconsider adjusting enmity for avatars. As things currently stand, SMN solo and small group play has been severly compromised. Giving avatars increased enmity traits an/or decreasing their rate of enmity decay would benefit and not hurt party dynamics.

[Annalise]

Did you not read the dev post immediately before your post you or something?

Quoted because people only look at the last page:

Actually, when I was posting, Camate's post wasn't there. Our posts are only 8 minutes apart. I had written something else but then deleted it. I noticed his post after mine was already posted. I actually read every single post in the thread.

[Absinthe]

Please don't forget to fix the enmity on PUP while you're at it. You recently improved our automaton positioning, and now every time my poor WHM Zero casts a spell on a monster or tosses me a cure, he get's walloped! If this is by design, you need to redesign. ^^

EDIT: Just wanted to echo some sentiments from above, please don't force PUP to party. Nobody invites us.

[Luvbunny]

Thank you Camate for finally giving us a proper explanation on the issue. And another big thanks for the developers finally aware that THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM for pet jobs - hopefully the updates will be implemented at the end of the month and not months ahead. The last thing we need is more people "rage quit" because updates and fixes are very slow coming.

[Areayea]

This part is very troubling. The dev team decided to move with hurting SMN solo play based on reasoning that is faulty and not remotely a cause for concern.

Avatars pulling hate in a party setting is almost never a problem. Any situation where it would be, you likely won't have your avatar out at all to begin with. And in the few situations that is not the case, it's merely a matter of proper positioning and timing. Group dynamos. We like that kind of thing, right?

It also ignores the fact that it is, 1. Pretty difficult to pull hate anyway, 2. there are times when it would be beneficial to the party for the avatar to pull hate, and 3. very easy to remedy the problem by simply releasing the avatar. Lets also not forget that avatars have no hate generating capabilities, terrible DOT, and very little survivability outside of their elemental resistances. They would in no way interfere with tanking duties. In the rare situation where a party found itself with the avatar tanking, they would likely want to keep it that way so they can regroup.

The dev team wants to push party play and coordination but fail to realize that this is one of the (few) ways SMN can contribute to this dynamic. They just don't seem to have a grasp of how the job is played, solo or otherwise.

Please reconsider adjusting enmity for avatars.

not sure if you understood, but from what I read, they want to basically make a snarl for Summoners... I'd love to have a disposable tank anyday...

Edit: for solo play you'd want your avatar to have all the hate anyway, and yes the prevention of glitch by assault getting 1 non volatile enmity is necessary... however for solo play I believe that a snarl would be perfect, for parties I think snarl would still be perfect, esp if it's like an emergency where you're tank is about to die and the whm can't keep up... ect. great time displacer.

[RalphTheGalka]

Has anything beneficial come out of these adjustments so far? It seems like it's been nothing but a train wreck so far for most jobs. Roll it back and go back to the drawing boards. And actually test it this time.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Has anything beneficial come out of these adjustments so far? It seems like it's been nothing but a train wreck so far for most jobs. Roll it back and go back to the drawing boards. And actually test it this time.

A lot more XP loss so peeps actually have to get XP again >.>...