Enmity System Explanation and Planned Adjustments

[OmnysValefor]

One thing I'd like to see is a trait for PLD that makes our cures generate more enmity. My paladin is hardly a healer, but if I'm saving someone's ass, I should be rewarded. Another option would be to give PLD's cures a trait that lowered their target's enmity.

Enmity changes with adoulin seemed to be heading in the right direction, but a lot of things were broken as well. Bst'ing dynamis built my aegis, but today's the first time I've seen bst in dyna since update, and paralyze was pulling off mobs that falcorr had put some hurt on. Pre-update* once a good Ruinator was snarled onto the pet, the pet was tanking.

Bst was OP in dyna pre-update. Changing the job so that it requires skill is fine. Breaking the job sucks.

And those poor poor summoners... As an Ochain PLD, I'm really not scared of anything, so I take on a VT malboro, a passing smn friend offers help. Well it's a stalemate. I'll never die, but he'll never die. I tell the summoner I'm going to just let it kill me so we can move on. He says ok. I die, Malboro never faces Smn's garuda but goes straight to the summoner and murders him. I get back up and guard the summoner while he stands back up and we move on.

Had Garuda out-hated me, would the malboro have just taken off for the smn? Sad.

[Kincard]

I dont see why they reducing enmity for ninja spells, good ninjas use spells to get hate, and vokes of course

Good Ninjas don't need to use their spells to keep hate.

Good players won't use Ninjas at all.

[Jem]

One thing I'd like to see is a trait for PLD that makes our cures generate more enmity. My paladin is hardly a healer, but if I'm saving someone's ass, I should be rewarded. Another option would be to give PLD's cures a trait that lowered their target's enmity.

PLD's cures "do" generate more enmity currently. RDM WHM SCH all have the Tranquil Heart job trait that lowers enmity of cures based on healing magic skill up to -25% enmity. So PLD effectively generates 25% more enmity with cure IV then RDM WHM SCH given they aren't subbing those jobs.

[OmnysValefor]

PLD's cures "do" generate more enmity currently. RDM WHM SCH all have the Tranquil Heart job trait that lowers enmity of cures based on healing magic skill up to -25% enmity. So PLD effectively generates 25% more enmity with cure IV then RDM WHM SCH given they aren't subbing those jobs.

Right, so my cure IV for 550 generates 206 enmity vs the whm's 550 doing 165. I'm not worried about outhating the WHM, the ragnarok next to me is my concern, and seeing my cure-kit worth its casting time would be nice. No different than ninjas wanting to keep proper hate on their spells rather than seeing them nerfed.

Edit: Also posted below, but as Economizer pointed out, a whm c4 for 550 is awful, I meant to say that was just an example.

Oops. I really meant to point out that a whm would be curing for more. The worst whm's in the game have at least +20% cure potency, more mnd, and questionable healing skill. I was just saying that a mage healing for the same amount.

Apologies.

[Economizer]

Right, so my cure IV for 550 generates 206 enmity vs the whm's 550 doing 165.

If the White Mage isn't curing at least in the neighborhood of 800 HP with a Cure IV, then there is something wrong with your White Mage. Good White Mages should be able to 850 HP fairly easily - curing over 50% more then you are and getting the enmity to match. Scholars with weather boosts can push this number even higher (breaking 950 or even 1000 HP depending on gear).

As a side note, although it can be debatable whether or not stacking enmity would be better, if you go all out on a cure set including using a Sanus Ensis, you can push numbers closer to 680, and if you capped out received cure potency at the cap of 30%, (which is possible but hard without a Corsair unless you feel like dropping your Ochain for an Adamas) that it has you can even push 880 or slightly higher on yourself.

White Mages are best off doing their best to exploit cureskin (which prevents the tank from losing as much enmity from getting hit for damage), while Scholars should be doing their best to exploit Regen V and their Animus spells. Back in the days when the max level was still 75 White Mages that were managing enmity well could even get away with casting in a Flash rotation with the Paladin so that the mob's TP moves were nullified, but I think we might not be able to see this clever and skillful play anymore based on people's reports.

[OmnysValefor]

Oops. I really meant to point out that a whm would be curing for more. The worst whm's in the game have at least +20% cure potency, more mnd, and questionable healing skill. I was just saying that a mage healing for the same amount.

Apologies.

[Camate]

Hello,

Thanks for the feedback thus far since my previous post.

We've seen a couple of questions, so I would like to provide some responses.

What about enmity changes for Dia and Helix spells?

• Dia
  While this is a spell that has a static amount of enmity, the amount of enmity generated is extremely low, so we removed it from the scope of our adjustments.
  
  
• Helix spells
  The enmity for these spells depends on the effect, so it was removed from the scope of our adjustments.
  
  Similar to elemental magic, the enmity generated is proportionate to the damage dealt.

Uhh, what about summoner job abilities…?

Blood Pacts, Retreat, and Release do not generate enmity, and as such were not included in the list.

Also, while on the subject of pet jobs, below are some notes about beastmaster's job abilities that were not included on the list:

• Ready
  This ability does not generate enmity.
  
  
• Spur/Run Wild
  While these abilities have a static amount of enmity generation, they are time volatile, and because the amount is lost every second it was removed from the scope of our adjustments.

Why would you reduce enmity values on NIN spells?

With ninja itself in mind, we understand that it would be best to increase the enmity for ninjutsu.
With that said, we will be going a separate route of adjustment so that ninjas can control enmity better.

However, we've included ninjutsu in the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.

blue mages forgotten?

We will not be adjusting enmity on blue magic because we feel that blue mage is a job that can better withstand a beating in the event that they pull hate from the target.

If Barspells are generating too much enmity... surely the WHM AOE versions should also receive an enmity decrease?

The AoE Bar- spells were removed from the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that the amount of enmity is very low. While the enmity depends on the amount of party members, the effect duration is quite long and is normally cast before battle, and if you need to it cast during battle, it's something you can use when Provoke and other front-line job enmity generation methods are being used.

[Areayea]

thank you camate, great to know that BLU and NIN can be effective tanks again ; however, just 2 quetions (both still regarding SMN); is summoning magic enmity going to be decreased, there is a whole other thread just regarding that question... it seems that most of us smn solo artists are having difficulty keeping enmity on our avatar while camping, due to the fact that we are getting too much enmity just by casting the summons. Second question is you did not include assault in there, is that going to remain the same where it's an introductory very minimal hate generator, or does it produce a lot more now, and we just have to hope the monster gets enmity on us for the pet to auto-attack.

PS I did remember, is it possible that you could make Blood pacts generate more enmity, since that would help solo-summoners/party-summoners have their pets tank?

[Demon6324236]

With ninja itself in mind, we understand that it would be best to increase the enmity for ninjutsu.
With that said, we will be going a separate route of adjustment so that ninjas can control enmity better.

However, we've included ninjutsu in the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.

>_>

However, we've included ninjutsu in the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.

;>_>

red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.

Problems like RDM actually being good and useful you mean!

No but really, you are singling out RDM as your reasoning for this change after you have left the job dead for the last couple years with no sign of making it actually wanted again?

[HimuraKenshyn]

Blood Pacts, Retreat, and Release do not generate enmity, and as such were not included in the list.

ORLY something is really bugged then in my book....