Changes to contest rules/policies

[Demon6324236]

I love how when I my posts are actually on topic they get deleted...

[Yinnyth]

The majority of players obviously disagree with him. It's difficult to tell if some people come here just to upset people or have an alternative agenda. Ether way a lot of players talking really bad bad/ignoring them because of the comments they make on these forums. Alhanelem really shouldn't try to defend this bad policy and screw with others who pay extra for the right to own multiple accounts. It just shows how rude and unsympathetic people are to others who pay money for as Alhanelem said "In game trinkets!" If those trinkets are so minor it shouldn't matter if everyone was allowed to win per FFXI account.

What effort would be involved in changing the system so these trinkets can be equally obtained-- not just by me-- but by my mule accounts as well? Because I have several mule accounts all linked to the same SE account, and they're all me behind the computer. I respect that you're ok with me entering these contests several times even though I'm just one person and I'm paying virtually nothing for my entry.

My concern is less about my increased chances of victory, less about your ability to share your SE account with other people while having seperate chances of victory, and more about how much effort is involved in changing the system. To the extreme, is it worth 10 trillion man-hours of work so 1 couple who linked their POL accounts to the same SE account can each enter contests seperately?

Obviously, these changes would not take 10 trillion man-hours of work. That's a ridiculous number. But people talk about these issues as though they cost 0 man-hours of work which is an equally ridiculous number. How much money would you be willing to accept SE sinking in to this project of changing their system?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the OP is wrong. They raise a very good point, and they are getting screwed by the system. But how do you fix this system in such a way that it:

1. Doesn't screw over legitimate users.
2. Doesn't allow people like me with multiple accounts to enter contests multiple times.
3. Doesn't cost more resources than it's worth.

It's a tough question to answer because someone is gonna get screwed. It's easy to assume the devs can make these changes with the push of a button, but even if they listen to you and make these changes, it will cost them time they could be using to do something else. Something I care about, for example. If you can drum up enough support, good for you. I haven't been able to drum up enough support for any of my ideas, so don't be offended when yours gets turned down. There's thousands of us playing this game, and we all have our own ideas for what the devs should be spending their time on.

[Volkai]

From http://account.square-enix.com/agreement/us/#

Terms & Conditions

1. Registered Users
Use of the Website or Services is limited to those satisfying the following conditions:
(a) You, whether an individual or legal entity, have completed SQUARE ENIX 's registration procedures and agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement and any other guidelines, rules, and policies set by SQUARE ENIX including without limitation our Privacy Policy(http://www.square-enix.com/na/privacy/). If there are any discrepancies between this Agreement and any other guidelines, this Agreement will precede any other guidelines;
...
(g) You agree that your Square Enix Account is non-transferable and, therefore, may not be transferred to or used by anyone other than you.

2. Square Enix ID and Password
(a) The Registered User will be solely responsible for the use and maintenance of his or her Square Enix ID and password, which will provide the Registered User with access to a Square Enix Account. The Registered User agrees to keep all registered account information updated, current and secure. Changes to account information may be made here. You may not sub-license, transfer, sell or assign your Square Enix ID or password to a third party, or allow a third party to use your Square Enix ID or Square Enix Account in any manner. Any use of the Registered User's Square Enix ID and password, even in the event that a third party uses such Square Enix ID and password, will be considered made by the Registered User and he/she will be liable for all charges and costs incurred. Regardless of the Registered User's lack of negligence or willfulness, SQUARE ENIX will not be liable for any damages caused by a third party's use of the Registered User's Square Enix ID and password. If the Registered User has reason to believe that his or her Square Enix Account is no longer secure, or in the event of a loss, theft, or unauthorized disclosure or use of his or her Square Enix ID or password stored on the Services, the Registered User must promptly notify SQUARE ENIX of the problem at http://support.na.square-enix.com/main.php?la=1&id=496.

While the quoted portions are only a small amount of the Square Enix Account Terms Of Use, I think they serve to make clear that when you make a SquareEnix account you do so as either an individual (1 person) or a single legal entity.

Either way, you have, in so doing, confirmed to SquareEnix that you are one entity, and that one entity is entitled to a single entry in such contests. This is true without regard to your awareness or ignorance of what message you conveyed to SquareEnix in registering multiple POL accounts to a single SE account.

The advantage to this is that you were indeed able to save some money, as SquareEnix allows a single entity to assign a single Security Token to multiple POL accounts. It is worth noting that under the Security Token Terms of Use:

4. Once the Security Token is shipped to and received by you, you will assume sole ownership of, and be solely responsible for, the Security Token.

(Security Token Terms of Use are available at the same URL as Square Enix Account Terms of Use.)

So, in short:
1) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to use a single Security Token
2) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to enter into certain contests once
3) SquareEnix previously measured 'a single entity' as a single POL account. Now, as per the SE Account Terms of Use, it can and does measure 'a single entity' as a single SE account.


I think it's pretty clear this is decided by SE, not by Tahngarthor, so talking about how Tahn is fighting a losing battle by stating what may be an unpopular view is incorrect. This is not Tahn's fight, and you can talk him down all you want but that changes nothing.

If you want to change things so that your two POL accounts are linked to two different SE accounts, the sole party that has the potential (if not actual) ability to assist you is SquareEnix, and to the end of making changes to your SE account status, you are better served by contacting SquareEnix at http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...hp?id=496&la=1 than discussing things here on the forum.



I hope this post is taken as it is intended, as informative rather than inflammatory, and that a speedy resolution to the issue that gave cause for this thread is achieved.

[Sarick]

What effort would be involved in changing the system so these trinkets can be equally obtained-- not just by me-- but by my mule accounts as well? Because I have several mule accounts all linked to the same SE account, and they're all me behind the computer. I respect that you're ok with me entering these contests several times even though I'm just one person and I'm paying virtually nothing for my entry.

You pay real money for each subscribed account. This game isn't free the contest aren't free. Even the so called free stuff trinkets aren't free. If you buy an item like a music CD and it includes in game content that isn't free. If you attend an event that gives away in game prizes that still isn't free even if you enter free. Why, because the game is subscription based.

Want to know how the accounts are separated? When I get a bill every month each of my accounts is billed separately. They the accounts aren't actually merged in game. They're only linked to a management system. These accounts get billed the same amount and not all items can't be transferred like main account mules. So even if I am one entity I pay for multiple separate accounts and each of those accounts should be allowed equal benefits.

We pay for the subscriptions, we pay for the expansions, we paid for the token. People here who agree that the policy is fine either don't maintain multiple accounts or don't want players who pay for multiple accounts to benefit from them. It's like having a limitation on you that you're being treated like you only own one account when your paying for multiples. The problem is the management system. Each account should be treated equally otherwise, they should let people separate them. Then get rid of the multiple account management issues they're constantly causing.

My concern is less about my increased chances of victory, less about your ability to share your SE account with other people while having seperate chances of victory, and more about how much effort is involved in changing the system. To the extreme, is it worth 10 trillion man-hours of work so 1 couple who linked their POL accounts to the same SE account can each enter contests seperately?

Obviously, these changes would not take 10 trillion man-hours of work. That's a ridiculous number.

I agree with this, the problem is the SE account is being used to manage contest not the character account. The contest themselves should be maintained inside the game world per account. When they use that web management page it treats the accounts as one paying entity even though each account is billed independently at full subscription rate.

As for me flaming, I never called anyone a name (though I'd like to sometimes) in the topic.

1. Doesn't screw over legitimate users.

Unless it lowers the chance of others winning who are legitimate paying subscribers its screwing over people who pay FULL subscriptions for unique characters. These items can't be transferred to other accounts so that account deserves rights to have the trinkets. Gil or transferable items is a different beast.

2. Doesn't allow people like me with multiple accounts to enter contests multiple times.

Why should this matter they are paying for each independently, I can log on and play both characters at the same time even though they are in the same management account. I pay a full fee for each account. The managment system is broken here because it's treating accounts like independent MULES. I wouldn't be paying for multiple accounts if you could only log on one at a time that's what the little content ID's are for.

3. Doesn't cost more resources than it's worth.

How is it going to cost resources? Unless I'm mistaken any in game generated item is a few simple bytes of data that can be copied over and over. The only limits are the data space they are stored in. The only real cost of the contest is managing/distributing the items.

It comes down to the RARE-EX items that can't be traded, not gil or stuff players can sell off. These things aren't going to break the game even if they're awesome because the character still has to be able to use them. They'll take up inventory space and can't be transferred or sold to other accounts.

[Sarick]

The advantage to this is that you were indeed able to save some money, as SquareEnix allows a single entity to assign a single Security Token to multiple POL accounts. It is worth noting that under the Security Token Terms of Use: (Security Token Terms of Use are available at the same URL as Square Enix Account Terms of Use.)

So, in short:
1) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to use a single Security Token
2) a single entity (one SquareEnix account) is allowed to enter into certain contests once
3) SquareEnix previously measured 'a single entity' as a single POL account. Now, as per the SE Account Terms of Use, it can and does measure 'a single entity' as a single SE account.

These policies are created by people who may not even play the game. They're basically created to cover legal issues if they are to be sued. It's not like these contest are going to be faked dollar bills or illegal items if each character account is given the same paying opportunity.

It's just a policy that can be changed not something written into infinity. It's like the Tommy boy quote about guarantees on the back of boxes. "Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time." This is what policies really are just crap to protect someones arse.

They can easily change the policy but choose not to do it. It's there because some legal figure head wrote it who probably doesn't even play or care about the the contest distribution.

I think it's pretty clear this is decided by SE, not by Tahngarthor, so talking about how Tahn is fighting a losing battle by stating what may be an unpopular view is incorrect. This is not Tahn's fight, and you can talk him down all you want but that changes nothing.

The losing battle was his argument. It wasn't changing the views of people who disagree with him. It definitely isn't his fight but it becomes an issue when he defends an unpopular point of view by attempting to collapse the topic trolling it.

It's like telling people who have problems with the policy "go to hell I'm fine with it screwing over others!" and then mocking them for being upset about it. It's a very unsavory situation thats insulting to people who feel they've been cheated.

If you want to change things so that your two POL accounts are linked to two different SE accounts, the sole party that has the potential (if not actual) ability to assist you is SquareEnix, and to the end of making changes to your SE account status, you are better served by contacting SquareEnix at http://support.na.square-enix.com/co...hp?id=496&la=1 than discussing things here on the forum.

Separating the accounts, LOL. I have never ever even once resolved an issue easily through SE support over the phone, chat or email. I doubt these paying customers will be given the opportunity to separate their accounts. It's just the way things are.

People who support bad polices need to get hit by them so they can receive what they dish out. Only then will they understand how much they're wronging others when it actually effects them negatively. I hope they come crying on here on the forums when it happens, then It'll be sweet tears of joy to everyone they've trolled.

[wildsprite]

as inconvenient as it is, you might want to call their support center, under special circumstances they have separated POL accounts from SE accounts so they could be registered to other accounts, just saying this because I don't think they will make exceptions to their contest rules nor change them for you.

[Sarick]

as inconvenient as it is, you might want to call their support center, under special circumstances they have separated POL accounts from SE accounts so they could be registered to other accounts, just saying this because I don't think they will make exceptions to their contest rules nor change them for you.

Good luck with that. There is so much red tape at the support center it's almost impossible to cut through and get decent help. When I called about my account not accepting a new credit card they kept blaming the bank. When it was their servers being so bogged down they couldn't handle the request. The bank called them directly. The bank representative thought we was talking to a scripted robot after getting off the support call.

[wildsprite]

Good luck with that. There is so much red tape at the support center it's almost impossible to cut through and get decent help. When I called about my account not accepting a new credit card they kept blaming the bank. When it was their servers being so bogged down they couldn't handle the request. The bank called them directly. The bank representative thought we was talking to a scripted robot after getting off the support call.

credit card issues are something else entirely and often lead to problems when the place you try to use the card is a shady source such as click and buy or something else, SE does not accept credit cards directly, they use an outside source regardless of what their site says it has always been that way.

as for un-linking your POL account from your SE account, they will need to verify some information once you explain the issue but that shouldn't be anything like dealing with a credit card at all

[Yinnyth]

How is it going to cost resources? Unless I'm mistaken any in game generated item is a few simple bytes of data that can be copied over and over. The only limits are the data space they are stored in. The only real cost of the contest is managing/distributing the items.

I'm not saying the increased bandwidth of more player entries is the cost. Nor am I saying the increased number of pixels that need to be distributed to winners is the cost. The cost is the effort that SE would need to put towards changing a system they already have in place. What I was saying is that this change will cost some amount of man-hours that we can only speculate over how much it is, yet everyone is talking about it as though it will take no time, no effort, no money whatsoever.

As you later point out, attempting to get your accounts split to new SE accounts involves going through a lot of red tape. As with any large company, even the simplest actions can require comical amounts of work. So how much are these changes worth? Would you still support them if it required all updates to be pushed back an entire month?

[wildsprite]

regardless of red tape under certain circumstances they will unlink a POL account from a SE account, they have even gone so far as to state this in these very forums, it is likely the only move you can make if you want to be able to enter contests on both of your POL accounts