what i had hoped for VS what we got.

[hideka]

now im no professional artist or anything, but i had drawn this picture of what i prayed geomancer would be like when FF11 Finally released it back when i was still in highschool in 2005. crummy i know, but it gets the point across.



Pretty much a berderss swinging axes and bells and tossing arround moderate damage NON-MP abilities that debuffed the targets or enhanced your allies.


what SE gave us is a want-to-be taoist outfit.... (while the hat and body look cool, the hot pants and sandals combo is fugly on females)

geomancers were supposed to be nature loving people who lived in the wilderness and attuned their bodies with it. basically nature mages. instead of getting something like this, we are getting a watered down blackmage that looks to be pretty darn close to a re-hashing of scholar with presumably zero melee capabilites and limited healing capacity.

now i know im not the only person who has become disappointed with the outcome of this iconic job. it really feels like it was just rushed and poorly developed. seriously, any tardo with a keyboard and general knowledge of FF11 mechanics could design a job if 90% of that job is based out of another existing jobs role AND abilities.... i dont know, was i expecting too much when i hoped for a truly unique job in terms of abilities? there is zero point in rehashing what another job can do by using said jobs pre-existing abilities and spells to do so, and to do it with a lesser effect.

does anyone share my disdain and general irritation about this? i would gladly wait another 6 months for this Expansion if it meant SE would take the time to sit down and restructure this job into a truly unique job (as unique as you can be with only 4 role-types to work within, heals, dps, support, tank)

[SpankWustler]

The only game in which hitting stuff is a strong element of Geomancer is Final Fantasy Tactics. In both III and V, Geomancer has mage-like statistics in spite of not using MP and rings bells from the back-line. The most recent incarnation of Geomancer from Tactics A2 is the closest thing to a mage that the Gria have; this version even uses MP.

That's not to say that Geomancer should or shouldn't hit things in Final Fantasy XI, but just to say that your vision of the job comes from your imagination just as the Development Bros vision comes from their imagination. I'm not sure how either vision is better or worse than the other. Ultimately, the value of Geomancer is going to come from how well it does stuff rather than how much of a mage it is and whether it uses MP or not.

[Yrusama]

The only game in which hitting stuff is a strong element of Geomancer is Final Fantasy Tactics. In both III and V, Geomancer has mage-like statistics in spite of not using MP and rings bells from the back-line. The most recent incarnation of Geomancer from Tactics A2 is the closest thing to a mage that the Gria have; this version even uses MP.

That's not to say that Geomancer should or shouldn't hit things in Final Fantasy XI, but just to say that your vision of the job comes from your imagination just as the Development Bros vision comes from their imagination. I'm not sure how either vision is better or worse than the other. Ultimately, the value of Geomancer is going to come from how well it does stuff rather than how much of a mage it is and whether it uses MP or not.

Great examples. The exact functions of GEO have never been clearly defined. First it casts magic randomly, then it learns magic based on area, then it uses abilities based on terrain... it clearly has some connection to the environment, but how it controls it is completely subject to each game's programming and interface. We should embrace whatever this new version brings to the table.

The artifact could use some work, though. I just hope the Relic and Empyrean sets look better. The Cirque gear looks totally different from the Puppetry/Pantin gear, so let's hope they follow that example and give us a simpler design for Empy.

[Koren]

Well, your "vision" of GEO isn't much better.

First you give them a 1 handed weapon, which already puts them at a second tier melee from the general player base perspective right out of the gate.

Second you give them abilities rather than magic leaving you with either timers you cant really reduce or another charge system. And you already said you expected the damage to be moderate, i.e. unimpressive, so you're not pulling GEO to the forefront of anything with Geomancy.

We don't have a way of differentiating between different terrain for the GEO moves and to be honest, even if the game did, you'd be looking at 2 or at most 3 different terrains for any particular fight so at most 3 different moves. That means most likely SE would just assign a few different abilities to each zone. Let's also not forget that GEO had been notoriously random with effects, you know that RNG that players seem to loathe with a passion. I'm sure that players would just love getting 5 consecutive castings of Blaze Spikes or something when they really are trying to get that Inferno class attack off. I'm fairly certain you'd counter with getting a GEO ATK and GEO DEF versions much like SMN's Blood Pacts. This would be likely offset by having various tiers of effects and the one with the highest chance of going off with undoubtedly be weakest/most useless. Were you expecting to get Instantacast Ancient Magic with any type of consistency? Sure they might release gear to increase the chances of getting the strong move, but it would never be very high and the attack power will probably come from some ignored stat, probably Mind or Charisma. Maybe it'll be improved based on the element so the only time Strength would matter is if you get a fire move off.

Since GEO is more or less terrain based you'd still be looking at a fairly small move set that you have no control over available. I'm sure you'd have tons of fun fighting a Puk and only having Windslash and Silence as available offensive moves.

And to be honest, the look of the job is appropriate. GEO has also been translated as Feng Shui Soldier from the Japanese which ties into the directional aspect that was planned for it, but maybe you just like the classic look of a Christmas elf in a parka.

All in all your idea of GEO is just a second-grade melee that would basically run as a petless BST with some uncontrollable elemental Jumps. Yeah, you're on a whole different league than those tardos with a keyboard.

[hideka]

The only game in which hitting stuff is a strong element of Geomancer is Final Fantasy Tactics. In both III and V, Geomancer has mage-like statistics in spite of not using MP and rings bells from the back-line. The most recent incarnation of Geomancer from Tactics A2 is the closest thing to a mage that the Gria have; this version even uses MP.

That's not to say that Geomancer should or shouldn't hit things in Final Fantasy XI, but just to say that your vision of the job comes from your imagination just as the Development Bros vision comes from their imagination. I'm not sure how either vision is better or worse than the other. Ultimately, the value of Geomancer is going to come from how well it does stuff rather than how much of a mage it is and whether it uses MP or not.

actually in the current Version of FF3, which has more depth than NIN NIN SAG SAG for its party dynamics, Geomancer is the go to Physical DPS class for a Humongous portion of the game, due to the available bells are almost always double the damage or signifigantly higher damage than any other weapons that are available. not to mention they have the lowest weight modifier of any weapon besides daggers, which makes their attack multipliers signifigantly higher at lower Jlevels than other classes.
it only starts falling behind once you get thfs with 90+ damage daggers, Knights with rag/xcala and ninjas with shurikens (or monks/blackbelts level 71+). if geo had some better endgame armor it would be in my party forever... sadly tho, gaia doublet doesn't stand up well compared to crystal armor

Well, your "vision" of GEO isn't much better.

First you give them a 1 handed weapon, which already puts them at a second tier melee from the general player base perspective right out of the gate.

i would counter this with " SE is trying to rebalance 1H and 2H" but im not even going to bother because theyre already going in the wrong direction. raising the base acc does minimal help to the situation of one handed WS's due to the fact that most of us are already at acc cap. not to mention the 5% gaurenteed miss rate on multihit WS's. if they really wanted to rebalance, remove that stupid ACC cap from 1h Multi hit WS's, and increase our TP mods a bit.

Second you give them abilities rather than magic leaving you with either timers you cant really reduce or another charge system. And you already said you expected the damage to be moderate, i.e. unimpressive, so you're not pulling GEO to the forefront of anything with Geomancy.

actually i was thinking of a more unique charge system than what dancer scholar and corsair currently utilize.

We don't have a way of differentiating between different terrain for the GEO moves and to be honest, even if the game did, you'd be looking at 2 or at most 3 different terrains for any particular fight so at most 3 different moves. That means most likely SE would just assign a few different abilities to each zone. Let's also not forget that GEO had been notoriously random with effects, you know that RNG that players seem to loathe with a passion. I'm sure that players would just love getting 5 consecutive castings of Blaze Spikes or something when they really are trying to get that Inferno class attack off. I'm fairly certain you'd counter with getting a GEO ATK and GEO DEF versions much like SMN's Blood Pacts. This would be likely offset by having various tiers of effects and the one with the highest chance of going off with undoubtedly be weakest/most useless. Were you expecting to get Instantacast Ancient Magic with any type of consistency? Sure they might release gear to increase the chances of getting the strong move, but it would never be very high and the attack power will probably come from some ignored stat, probably Mind or Charisma. Maybe it'll be improved based on the element so the only time Strength would matter is if you get a fire move off.

Fair enough, read my next post >_> i hit the character limit.

Since GEO is more or less terrain based you'd still be looking at a fairly small move set that you have no control over available. I'm sure you'd have tons of fun fighting a Puk and only having Windslash and Silence as available offensive moves.

Again Next post!

And to be honest, the look of the job is appropriate. GEO has also been translated as Feng Shui Soldier from the Japanese which ties into the directional aspect that was planned for it, but maybe you just like the classic look of a Christmas elf in a parka.

Well hell, last i checked, people with a mote of intelligence don't call a Chevy astro van a Porsche because they want someone else to think that they're getting a Porsche when it is OBVIOUSLY not a Porsche >_>.

thats essentially SE saying: "Sheet guys i had a brilliant idea, lets just call this job, that's very obviously NOT a geomancer, geomancer. we should do it because people will want to play it more because of the Iconic nomenclature."

all i really did for that picture was

+

+ a little bit of imagination >_>
i personally wouldnt mind having an af like that >_>

All in all your idea of GEO is just a second-grade melee that would basically run as a petless BST with some uncontrollable elemental Jumps. Yeah, you're on a whole different league than those tardos with a keyboard.

all in all all se's idea is a second grade- mage that would basically never get invited > _>
proceed to next post prz >_>

[SpankWustler]

Congratulations, you've built an awesome Rube Goldberg machine!

actually in the current Version of FF3, which has more depth than NIN NIN SAG SAG for its party dynamics, Geomancer is the go to Physical DPS class for a Humongous portion of the game, due to the available bells are almost always double the damage or signifigantly higher damage than any other weapons that are available. not to mention they have the lowest weight modifier of any weapon besides daggers, which makes their attack multipliers signifigantly higher at lower Jlevels than other classes.

I just assumed FFIII bells were the same as the FFV bells, since all I could remember is that Geomancer basically had the same stats and equipment selection as the mage troop in both games. Apparently not! In Final Fantasy III, bells are inexplicably terrifying melee weapons and Geomancer uses them to bash things with gusto, like a particularly dedicated Salvation Army volunteer in a bad part of town.

That is either awesome or ridiculous; I have no idea which.

[Merton9999]

Congratulations, you've built an awesome Rube Goldberg machine!



I just assumed FFIII bells were the same as the FFV bells, since all I could remember is that Geomancer basically had the same stats and equipment selection as the mage troop in both games. Apparently not! In Final Fantasy III, bells are inexplicably terrifying melee weapons and Geomancer uses them to bash things with gusto, like a particularly dedicated Salvation Army volunteer in a bad part of town.

That is either awesome or ridiculous; I have no idea which.

I'll help. It's ridiculous. I wish they'd remove the bell thing. I always avoided BST because I don't feel like fighting with Pokemon. Bells are along the same lines of cuteness that doesn't appeal to me as I'm killing evil monsters. There's just something about beating Azdaja with a bell that would ruin the moment for me.

I guess I have to live with it though, unless they give me my wish and bells are never actually visible on my character

[Trumpy]

No one ever mentions Mog from FF3 US (FF6 JP), which did dances based on areas.

[ManaKing]

No one ever mentions Mog from FF3 US (FF6 JP), which did dances based on areas.

Yeah if they made Geomancers Mog, I wouldn't care what they did. Dancing Moogle that brings down caves on people.

Also, yes im going to be displeased with Geomancer, regardless of what they do because my Geomancer in FFT is my strongest non-story unit. Female Geomancer/Samurai with Blade Grasp and Magic AttackUP. Rune Blade, Aegis, Flash Hat, Wizards Robe, Setiemson. Is so nice and has so much utility. Is also very hard to kill.

[Merton9999]

I like the sphere concept honestly. And buffing and enfeebling are my favorite roles, so... The BLM aspect of this job seems secondary at best to me, which is fine because it's just something to add to the mix while I'm maintaining spheres and moving around.

Also, I wouldn't have wanted this job the way it was in Tactics, and certainly don't want it to look like it did in FFV. The random selection of effects would have been prohibitively horrible to me, and I don't see terrain based effects working in this game.

Also, your concept keeps sounding like DNC with an axe to me. Sorry but I think the sphere and positional aspects are more original regardless of what we're doing with them.

Oh, and I HATE the bell thing. I hope GEO bells are never visible. It's nostalgic, sure, but something they could have dropped for my taste. I do like the clubs shown in the teasers though.