Revamp the way we gain experience points

[Leach]

Take THF for example. In the old days people who played THF would learn just the basic SATA from party members explaining to them how to do it. Now new THF at 99 who have never played the game before have no real idea how SA and TA are to work as well as the other JA that benefit THF in end game.

[Demon6324236]

But instead they learn how to use them in a real endgame scenario. THFs in xp parties were able to use SATA to keep hate on a tank, in endgame enmity is so broken that SATA does not have that use, instead its used to make your WSs do more damage. There is a massive functional difference in now things work in xp parties vs endgame. PLD is another job you can use for instance, in xp parties, you were to keep hate on a mob and tank it. In endgame you are to supertank adds, never even hitting the mob, and in most cases you completely ignore the entire function of enmity as a whole. DDs in xp parties had to hold back at times so they did not take hate and wipe the party, in endgame its an all out zerg of throwing down the most damage possible in the least amount of time.

There are not many things people learned doing xp parties that was actually helpful in endgame today. Exp parties and endgame today are 2 very separate things, and are practically entirely different games as a whole when it comes to playing a job. There are a number of examples ranging from RDM being better than WHM at low levels, only to be passed up by a ton in the end, or how MP is a problem at lower levels, while at high levels mages have so much refresh they can hit upward of 10MP/Tick.

[Rustic]

That is not proposing Maat-style fights, thats suggesting slower xp, which is why I made that entire comment about going back to slow xp. Checking someone's gear to see how good or bad they are at a certain job or overall is not that hard, and gives you the same, or better, results. I personally like how things are now, I have an easy time telling who is doing good and who is not, at the same time, I am not in any way potentially being negatively effected by the game attempting to correct the skill level of players who make it to a certain level by the time they reach said level.

If you hit a level cap and you can't get past it, that's not slowing the rate of exp. That's saying "You can't beat this, you go no further.". For that matter, it can apply to L99's as well. Pass this test on your own and you can play in the sandbox with all the other L99's, fail your skill check and you're stuck till you do.

Gate content based on personal skill rather than encounters other players can carry you through and you filter bad players from the system. WoW actually has cases where if you can't show up with sufficiently high item levels in gear, you can't get in on certain content. I'd rather have skill check instead of gear check.

So far as Maat-style fights, I think every job should have a second fight similar to Maat where you get a piece of gear that is powerful for the job, powerful enough it is not easily replaced. If you wanted to really check the skill of a player in that case you could simply ask them to show the gear to you, so that you know they have it, and passed the test. I am talking about a piece of gear for each job like a Mythic, which would boost abilities, traits, or some type of stats that would directly impact the job in a powerful way that is nearly impossible to replace, and useful enough to bother going after. Some of these would be easier to make than others, but in reality we have items somewhat like this to begin with already.

Ala Suppa and other unique bits. I wouldn't mind seeing additional rewards for success at beating a "gate fight".

Black Belt and Evoker's Ring are 2 items like this, where they are exceptionally powerful and are made for only a single job. If gear like this were made but it came from a level 99 version of the Maat fight but without any handicaps or any other party members it would add special gear that would show a certain level of skill as well as benefiting all players who can obtain it, not simply showing an artificial level of skill. Also the fact it is job specific means it would not have an easy job to do it with where you get all of the benefits, such as the WHM Maat fight, where you can breeze through it, and all jobs benefit from the victory.

That's one of the reasons I mentioned not setting these "gates" up with an "easymode job", which Maat does have. Having a piece of trophy gear to go with the victory doesn't hurt either, as it'd let you prove that the player is competent on multiple jobs, not just the one they originally passed the gate in question with.

[Rustic]

That will have it's own set of issues. If you pop your ring and no one else does, you will level faster than everyone and ruin their exp.

Level sync called, they want to know when you've used their service lately.

Even if they all decide they want to exp. fast like you, You will also out grow camps super fast making it so that instead of spending time fighting, you will spend most of your time traveling to different camps (which has nothing to do with gaining exp. or learning your job). There are already a lot of people who have most of their jobs leveled beyond a certain point, which means that you will probably have to level synch. Which means that people won't be learning anything about their abilities as they level up because they will be capped to a lower level and unable to access them.

We can't de-level everyone who took the exp-o-tron ride, but we CAN make the trip more educational for the ones that come after it- if S-E ever actually capped Abyssea rather than having people be able to la-la-leech mode on L80 mobs with their L30 useless piece of monster snack.

I could go on for days, but I think you get the point. Low level experience points parties are pretty much a thing of the past. The only way that form of leveling will ever be relevant again is if SE somehow creates a huge influx of new players coming into the game that are attracted to the game because of this newly introduced feature that allows them to level at a rate that is 10 times slower than the one that all the current players got to use. Who knows though. Maybe pigs can fly.

Wouldn't be the first time the rate of advancement has been turned back. Or have you been making a mint off those chocobo blinkers lately?

[Demon6324236]

If you hit a level cap and you can't get past it, that's not slowing the rate of exp. That's saying "You can't beat this, you go no further.". For that matter, it can apply to L99's as well. Pass this test on your own and you can play in the sandbox with all the other L99's, fail your skill check and you're stuck till you do.

Gate content based on personal skill rather than encounters other players can carry you through and you filter bad players from the system. WoW actually has cases where if you can't show up with sufficiently high item levels in gear, you can't get in on certain content. I'd rather have skill check instead of gear check.

Sorry, when I originally read your post this line...

Then let's make it so they no longer get to those levels in the first place.

Was read incorrectly, I thought it said...

Then let's make it so they take longer to get to those levels in the first place.

Which was a massive failure on my part. I apologize.

In either case, I am not sure I can say I would want people to have to go through Maat with each job either, some jobs, for instance RDM, would become such a pain for people to do that it would kill off the job even more. Also many Maat fights are easy, or really show no real skill at the job even if you win. For instance, THF can use steal to win, but steal has nothing to do with playing THF, WHM survives for 5 minutes, but thats not something WHM normally has to do, they keep others alive, not themselves. WAR, SAM, DRK, they are all basic zerg fights, go in, beat the old man down as fast as you can, and maybe bring a few items along to keep you up.

My point is that SE would have to get much more creative on what a person would have to do to prove themselves, because the Maat fights in general are very poor, fights that are hard have little to do with the job, and more to do with trying to out match Maat using certain tricks. The things you learn from fighting Maat or you use to fight him very often have no real application by the time you hit endgame anyways, same as how experience point parties are with endgame, the relation just is not the same. Its a solo fight, and thats what your asking for, but the endgame content is party, or even alliance content. I do not disagree that something like this would be nice, but in reality they would have to be much more interesting in how they would do the fight for each job, otherwise it will end up like Maat, where its often not even related to how you really play a job.

[Arcon]

I don't know about you, but I do kinda miss grinding jobs up to 75, playing my job, and learning how to play. It was repetitive and infuriating at times, but it reinforced the use of the job and n00bs, though they still existed, were hard to create.

If you need to whack ten thousand crabs to learn how to play the game, you're not the sharpest tool in the shed. Then you'll still need to do hundreds of endgame fights to actually be worth a damn in any events.

And Arcon, you can't comment! Just kidding feel free to connect this to my job as a bst as you wish. :-D

I actually find it a bit contradictory that a BST wants old EXP back, because for a BST that usually means sit in a corner and don't get invited at all, so you have to start claim wars over other EXP parties.

[Rustic]

Sorry, when I originally read your post this line...

Was read incorrectly, I thought it said...

Which was a massive failure on my part. I apologize.

No worries.

In either case, I am not sure I can say I would want people to have to go through Maat with each job either, some jobs, for instance RDM, would become such a pain for people to do that it would kill off the job even more. Also many Maat fights are easy, or really show no real skill at the job even if you win. For instance, THF can use steal to win, but steal has nothing to do with playing THF, WHM survives for 5 minutes, but thats not something WHM normally has to do, they keep others alive, not themselves. WAR, SAM, DRK, they are all basic zerg fights, go in, beat the old man down as fast as you can, and maybe bring a few items along to keep you up.

My point is that SE would have to get much more creative on what a person would have to do to prove themselves, because the Maat fights in general are very poor, fights that are hard have little to do with the job, and more to do with trying to out match Maat using certain tricks. The things you learn from fighting Maat or you use to fight him very often have no real application by the time you hit endgame anyways, same as how experience point parties are with endgame, the relation just is not the same. Its a solo fight, and thats what your asking for, but the endgame content is party, or even alliance content. I do not disagree that something like this would be nice, but in reality they would have to be much more interesting in how they would do the fight for each job, otherwise it will end up like Maat, where its often not even related to how you really play a job.

That's also what I've noted- in some cases, Maat is easymode. There's a reason why they tell people the quick road to 99 is WHM, and being able to heal your way through Maat is one of them. Now imagine one where your WHM is facing some kind of undead horror that they have to use Afflatus effects on, that can end up immune to Cure/Holy effects and it has to be broken by WSing the target, etc. etc...all on WHM with no SJ. That is, it's a fight designed to make the person use the whole job and it's spells/JA's to win.

Could you imagine a Geomancer trial where it was a giant game board, and pieces on your side would win or lose based on strategic buff placements, all the while having to defend yourself from occasional "pawns" trying to capture the enemy "king"? There's room for a ton of creative in there.

The point is to challenge the person alone- not so much as a "training session" for later content, but simply to prove that the person, alone can beat something challenging without being carried by his fellows. None of them should have "shortcuts" that rely on pure luck (like THF stealing from Maat). Personal skill should be tested to give the player access to content with X job- and if you REALLY wanted to be harsh about it, you only allow that person access with jobs they finished their trial on.

[Miiyo]

Took me close to a year to level my whm prior to abyssea. I was never going to level another job because the process was horrendous. You say you miss grinding but you left out the waiting and shouting for FIVE people to join you to do this grinding. It's okay that you're an M, but don't blame abyssea for your problems in finding likeminded M's to go do exactly what you miss. Grinding. It's still there. Go grind to your heart's content!!

When i was level one, i cast my cure spell. I understood that it gave me health. I didn't need tons of parties to figure that out. There are very few things in this game you shouldn't be able to figure out from just reading the description. Comprehension and "skill" in this game do not come by the amount of time it takes to level up. MOST of you whining over gimp players estimate yourselves in the first place. Alot of people whine as well on my server, about under-skilled players yet my own ls is the only NA ls able to successfully do legion.

But... why does another player's gimpness or lack of, really matter? If the server was the opposite of what you said, full of l33t assholes, everyone would be done with the game in half a year.

If we change the way the xp is attained via your suggestion, if you were in a party with me or any decent+ blm, you'd not get much mp unless you go kill outside of my aga/ja range.

[FrankReynolds]

Level sync called, they want to know when you've used their service lately.

Great. Let's all level synch to 30 and never use our abilities until we are 99. That will fix the problems with people reaching 99 and not knowing their jobs.

We can't de-level everyone who took the exp-o-tron ride, but we CAN make the trip more educational for the ones that come after it- if S-E ever actually capped Abyssea rather than having people be able to la-la-leech mode on L80 mobs with their L30 useless piece of monster snack.

Face it man, there is like 5 minutes of education to be had in there and you want it to be spread out over weeks / months. It's a not a good formula.

Wouldn't be the first time the rate of advancement has been turned back. Or have you been making a mint off those chocobo blinkers lately?

When exactly did we begin discussing money making?

Take THF for example. In the old days people who played THF would learn just the basic SATA from party members explaining to them how to do it. Now new THF at 99 who have never played the game before have no real idea how SA and TA are to work as well as the other JA that benefit THF in end game.

It's been years since people actually lined up for that. Why would I want to spend months learning how to do it?

PS. If you even make it to level 31 without knowing how that works, you are a fail boat anyways. Before wiki even existed, it was almost impossible to level another job besides thief without figuring out how that worked. Gearing for it is the hard part and you won't get any gear fighting crabs.

[Demon6324236]

Blinkers were an example of things that were amazing for people while here, but if people missed it then they got screwed. In this case with xp it would be the same, those here while Abyssea allowed amazing leveling would be lucky, and after the change that nerfed it, people would be screwed.