Why not? My PLD fix-it thread

[Chocobits]

I've seen innumerable terrible and numberable decent threads about fixing PLD lol.

I'm bored so I'll take a stab at it. I figure, if RFN actually turns out to be any kind of decent tank, that's just more reason to avoid PLDs or use them only for Diaga+Kiting in turtle gear.

Here are my suggestions for fixing PLD, enmity and job balance as they pertain to enmity:

Increase both enmity caps.
--------------------------------
Reason: Larger enmity pool makes it more dangerous for everyone at the cap.

Change the enmity polling from instant to 15 second intervals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reason: Makes it a "big deal" to pull hate off of tank, as the new target will be targetted for a quarter of a minute, forcing additional resources to be used to keep them alive.

Make Fealty/Chivalry normal job abilities at their maximum merited potency.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reason: These don't even seem like they should be merits. They should come with the job.

Fill that merit ability slot with an ability that raises PDT/MDT by 2%/1% per merit, for a cap of 10%/5%.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Reason: Allows PLD to utilize more gear slots for offense.

Increase the CE/VE of all cure spells.
------------------------------------------
Reason: Hate tool for PLD. Makes it more dangerous for healers and forces them to stack -enmity once again. Makes throwing normal melee jobs at mobs more dangerous and eliminates a bit of duo/trio boxing.

Addition of more "Flail" type moves. Make changes to mob AI so they are more likely to use "Flail" type moves when shifting targets.
---------------------------------------------------------
Reason: Makes it more dangerous to pull hate.

Remove the majority of enmity reset behavior/abilities from enemies.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reason: This type of behavior contributed to the erosion of the dev team's vision for battle strategy and job utilization. Plus with the addition of more flail type moves, constantly shifting hate becomes very unbalanced.

While Cover is active, shield block rate is increased.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Reason: Less enmity loss for mitigating damage to party members.

Increase enmity loss per % of HP loss sustained.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Reason: More likely for mob to revert attention back to tank when another member pulls hate, and makes the tank need to work harder to maintain the mob's attention. Somewhat negated by the Cover enhancement above.

And of course, for all of this to work: remove lethal AOEs or have their AOE radius greatly reduced, as has been beaten to death.
-----------------------------------------------------
Reason: Programmatic laziness =/= difficulty, only simulated difficulty.

There. Completely fixed the game. Sharper penalties for cure bombing and zerking. Increased survivability for PLD. Fixed the flow of battle to something more rhythmic.

And PLD doesn't become OP.

*Dousing myself in kerosene*
Flame me. My body is ready.

[Sarick]

I have a suggestion you might want to think about.

Fix cover!!

Why, Just having the PLD in the party mitigates damage with abilities active. Since the PLD has the rule of taking the brunt of the damage (PROTECTING OTHERS) by not being a damage dealer then they should be able to mitigate damage by actively interfering with attacks. Creating enmity is only one half what PLD could be. Think about how other FF games that used cover. It would auto cover people who where attacked it didn't matter who was targeted. Right now the job is mostly trying to get the enemy to COME to them (warrior style) as an offensive tank instead of a defensive one.

The role of PLD should also be able to shield others by intercepting attacks sent to them. The cover ability is way to limited to be very useful. It's recast is to long, it's duration isn't log enough and it only protects one targeted person even if there is only one attacker. If this PLD person was protecting my family I'd feel better off protecting myself by running away. If someone wants me dead and they're set on killing me or someone in my family. A bodyguard trying to hold the attention of the attacker shouldn't be the only method of protection.

Priorities.

1st. Cover & protect
2nd. Redirect attention.
3rd. Disable or eliminate threat.

Instead of only: (You need more hate then others provoking the enemy somehow)
"COME TO ME MONSTER I'M MAKING YOU ANGRY!"

It should be: (I'll move to protect my allies. I'm going to COVER them with my life)
"TO GET TO THESE ALLIES YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ME FIRST!"

Think of it like this.

If there was an important group that a guard (lets say secret service bodyguard) was protecting a few high level officials. If someone started shooting at one of them they wouldn't just stand there yelling obscenities at the shooter. No they'd automatically run to cover that person with their body to PROTECT/SHIELD them. This would redirect the attackers attention to getting past the bodyguards cover attempts. Last the bodyguard would attempt to eliminate the threat while keeping the targets safe or giving them time to move to safety.

Currently for the most part when in FFXI combat the role of tank is to YELL at the target or hurt it enough to redirect the attacks towards the PLD tank. The tank should also have a high level of skill to protect allies (to a degree not perfect) REGARDLESS of who the enemy is angry at by intercepting its attacks. PLDs by the games design are stupid. The job is mostly designed hold the attention of the attacker. It should also mitigate damage to others by taking a more aggressive role in actively covering them and making them feel protected.

On a side note:
If the developers reduced the recast to 30 seconds for a single target that last 15-20 seconds. They could make cover based tanking an advanced gaming skill. This would allow the PLD to protect someone every time the ability is used but still require holding hate to an extent. If modified this way the job would be changed in ways where it would be a more useful tank but the player would still need skills to preform well. This would definitely change the tanking tactics for this job.

Enmity would still need fixed and the issue you stated with instant attention updates would still be a a problem but, at least the job would be more likely to get a slot for tanking. Also with covers the tank would have no evasion and counter capabilities. Shadows and flash blindness could be an exceptions because technically they are creating fake clones or blinding the enemy.

Also, Since cover is a sub job ability it would be capable of making other jobs more effective at tanking when using the modified cover. They still wouldn't be as defensive or successful though as native PLD.

[Chocobits]

I have a suggestion you might want to think about.

Fix cover!!

Why, Just having the PLD in the party mitigates damage with abilities active. Since the PLD has the rule of taking the brunt of the damage (PROTECTING OTHERS) by not being a damage dealer then they should be able to mitigate damage by actively interfering with attacks. Creating enmity is only one half what PLD could be. Think about how other FF games that used cover. It would auto cover people who where attacked it didn't matter who was targeted. Right now the job is mostly trying to get the enemy to COME to them (warrior style) as an offensive tank instead of a defensive one.

The role of PLD should also be able to shield others by intercepting attacks sent to them. The cover ability is way to limited to be very useful. It's recast is to long, it's duration isn't log enough and it only protects one targeted person even if there is only one attacker. If this PLD person was protecting my family I'd feel better off protecting myself by running away. If someone wants me dead and they're set on killing me or someone in my family. A bodyguard trying to hold the attention of the attacker shouldn't be the only method of protection.

Priorities.

1st. Cover & protect
2nd. Redirect attention.
3rd. Disable or eliminate threat.

Instead of only: (You need more hate then others provoking the enemy somehow)
"COME TO ME MONSTER I'M MAKING YOU ANGRY!"

It should be: (I'll move to protect my allies. I'm going to COVER them with my life)
"TO GET TO THESE ALLIES YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ME FIRST!"

Think of it like this.

If there was an important group that a guard (lets say secret service bodyguard) was protecting a few high level officials. If someone started shooting at one of them they wouldn't just stand there yelling obscenities at the shooter. No they'd automatically run to cover that person with their body to PROTECT/SHIELD them. This would redirect the attackers attention to getting past the bodyguards cover attempts. Last the bodyguard would attempt to eliminate the threat while keeping the targets safe or giving them time to move to safety.

Currently for the most part when in FFXI combat the role of tank is to YELL at the target or hurt it enough to redirect the attacks towards the PLD tank. The tank should also have a high level of skill to protect allies (to a degree not perfect) REGARDLESS of who the enemy is angry at by intercepting its attacks. PLDs by the games design are stupid. The job is mostly designed hold the attention of the attacker. It should also mitigate damage to others by taking a more aggressive role in actively covering them and making them feel protected.

On a side note:
If the developers reduced the recast to 30 seconds for a single target that last 15-20 seconds. They could make cover based tanking an advanced gaming skill. This would allow the PLD to protect someone every time the ability is used but still require holding hate to an extent. If modified this way the job would be changed in ways where it would be a more useful tank but the player would still need skills to preform well. This would definitely change the tanking tactics for this job.

Enmity would still need fixed and the issue you stated with instant attention updates would still be a a problem but, at least the job would be more likely to get a slot for tanking. Also with covers the tank would have no evasion and counter capabilities. Shadows and flash blindness could be an exceptions because technically they are creating fake clones or blinding the enemy.

Also, Since cover is a sub job ability it would be capable of making other jobs more effective at tanking when using the modified cover. They still wouldn't be as defensive or successful though as native PLD.

No. That won't fix anything. Enmity and battle mechanics need to be fixed. I proposed a change to Cover: Increase shield block rate while it's active. Cover =/= fix. Penalties and rewards for pacing battle, phasing out zerging and the need to zerg, and a slight increase in offensive capability are what will fix PLD. It's not that PLD is even particularly broken, it's that fighting in general is broken. That is why most of the changes I suggest are not even geared toward PLD. Fix fighting mechanics and PLD will more or less fix itself, with a couple of slight enhancements.

[Sarick]

No. That won't fix anything. Enmity and battle mechanics need to be fixed.

I agree that the enimity system is broken It was listed in my post.

I proposed a change to Cover: Increase shield block rate while it's active. Cover =/= fix.

What good is that fix if you can only use it once every 3-5 minutes. Cover should be more useful then once every five minutes. It's rarely used in comparison to the warriors provoke because the ability has such an awful recast.

Penalties and rewards for pacing battle, phasing out zerging and the need to zerg, and a slight decrease in offensive capability are what will fix PLD. It's not that PLD is even particularly broken, it's that fighting in general is broken.

The developers most likely won't do this directly to the job because it's not supposed to be a high damage job. There is hope though when they mentioned changing the way one handed weapons work.

That is why most of the changes I suggest are not even geared toward PLD. Fix fighting mechanics and PLD will more or less fix itself, with a couple of slight enhancements.

I'd still like cover to be extensively more useful with a lower recast just increasing block rate is kind of sad for something that doesn't last long and has an abysmal recast rate.

[Chocobits]

Now I know, despite there having been at least 5 dozen threads of the same nature, people are literally dying to post here and applaud me for fixing the game single-handedly. But most of you are busy, and with this threads burial imminent, most of you unfortunately won't have the chance to pat me on the back.

So I will bring this back up to the top briefly so that you and the devs and I can all rejoice in knowing how much ass I kick and how I am keeping the game relevant in the new decade. Go me!

[saevel]

Better idea

The NM does 2,000 damage aoes so that only the PLD can survive. With only the PLD there tanking is *fixed*.

You have a very limited understanding of the current enmity system which is why you didn't realize that none of that would actually work. It would do the exact opposite and push even harder for "zerging".

[Chocobits]

Better idea

The NM does 2,000 damage aoes so that only the PLD can survive. With only the PLD there tanking is *fixed*.

You have a very limited understanding of the current enmity system which is why you didn't realize that none of that would actually work. It would do the exact opposite and push even harder for "zerging".

I have a very limited understanding of the current enmity system? That would be the first I have heard of it. Putting aside exact numerical references for CE/VE values per specific action, currently there IS no enmity system, and not understanding that makes one unqualified to respond.

Enmity is supposed to be a cumulative, ever shifting value that we are supposed to attempt to keep within certain ranges based on our role(s). However, because the values for certain actions are poorly quantified by SE, combined with the fact that in a lot of instances, putting aside high AOE damage, having a DD tank and spam cure them in a duo/trio setup is sufficient for most current "end game" content.

My proposed changes will see a revisiting of CE/VE values, impose a minimal amount of time any player shifting hate will have a mob's attention, slightly increase DD output for PLD without losing any -damage gear, create once again, penalties for "spinning" a mob, and finally get rid of the random hate reset/switching SE implemented as a (baffling) means of depriving us of controlled battlefields. As well as getting rid of every recent mob's decision to look at their watch randomly and say "Oh.. look at the time. It's rape-o-clock."

But hey, I gave suggestions and not rhetoric. Did you have any counter suggestions, or was I being awesome too loudly to hear them?

[Chocobits]

And yes, I know imposing a forced wait on enmity polling is something none of us really want. Dynamic enmity is probably one of the things that drew all of us in. I'm just saying, with the current structure (of which I'm told I know little about), dynamic enmity is what breaks enmity, because the enmity favors melee damage most greatly (by a landslide), given the changes over the last several years with the level increase and gear that throws so much DA/TA/Crit/STR at players without sacrificing any gear haste.

Reducing the enmity generation from damage would allow effective tanking.. but break the game in a way that only zerging would be rewarded.. which is why I suggested increasing enmity generation from cures instead.

[Sarick]

And yes, I know imposing a forced wait on enmity polling is something none of us really want. Dynamic enmity is probably one of the things that drew all of us in. I'm just saying, with the current structure (of which I'm told I know little about), dynamic enmity is what breaks enmity, because the enmity favors melee damage most greatly (by a landslide), given the changes over the last several years with the level increase and gear that throws so much DA/TA/Crit/STR at players without sacrificing any gear haste.

I agree with the TARU but also want to point something out that a lot of hardcore people reading need to realize. This is a freken game not rocket science project. It's supposed to be pick up and play entertainment. Skill and strategy plays a large part of being good at GAMES but it shouldn't need to be analyzed with microscopic precision to play. When you throw in all these mathematical equations and quantify every single aspect of the games mechanics your not really playing the game anymore. Got it?

The design is broken if the system is complex for basic gaming. When people undermined others because they revolve around the raw core mechanics it just shows how shallow their priorities in life are. I'm saying if players need to macro manage the raw mathematical concepts to play the game something is wrong with the system. The battle system should be geared so that it runs fluidly around basic concepts that don't need a PHD to understand.

The changes I mentioned bypass some of the complexity of protecting others. It's an outside the box SKILL based change that needs no math formula to understand. If the poling of enmity was increased to 15 seconds (as chocobits stated) and the cover change I mentioned was in place the job could effectively protect others to an extent even with total loss of hate. The class should've had this installed into its core design by default allowing it more control outside the enmity system. It should've been a basic part of the jobs ability to protect people regardless of hate. This would shift some of the poorly designed enmity problems to a manageable player skill that even a two year old could understand how it works.

It's really pathetic when people talk about how broken things are and they start throwing numbers around instead of concepts. They lose track of reality and become immersed to deep into the raw code. The reality is they should be playing a game for entertainment. Simple concepts that work in general without complexity are the way to go.

All this garbage talk I see trying to make people look stupid doesn't make the game better it just shows some players have a hypercritical obsession with a game. It's supposed to be entertaining not synthesizing complex protein chains for serious research. What makes the game better is simple adjustments so that things flow correctly in an understandable pattern, not more "I know more then you do now shut up." It's simple minded, stubborn, and conceited attitudes like this that make things more complex then they need to be. It doesn't allow new things to move forward.

I know from experience players who are to enthralled with the raw mathematical complexities can't seem to grasp simple concepts because they're to convoluted with details to understand simple things. It's like the complex knowledge gets in the way of the ability to understand the basic concepts. They simply can't deal with equations that use wild cards or hidden values when everything they understand is overly complex.

If the developers changed cover this would be an improvement even if it didn't fix the job.

[Alhanelem]

Addition of more "Flail" type moves. Make changes to mob AI so they are more likely to use "Flail" type moves when shifting targets.
---------------------------------------------------------
Reason: Makes it more dangerous to pull hate.

We don't need more flail moves- in fact flail type moves are actually preferred over many mob's other TP moves these days, so I guess you'd be doing us all a favor.

Flail moves only make it dangerous to pull hate if you don't understand that it's a flail move and you shouldn't be standing behind the mob in the first place.