Why not? My PLD fix-it thread

[Chocobits]

let me check....


I don't see anything related to lower damage dealt enmity here

+


we agree that damage enmity need to be lowered and other enmity raised but you lied when you said you " did specifically mention that hate values for damage dealt need to be revisited."

I did, on page 2 when I backpedaled, but it didn't survive an edit I made. My apologies. Looking back now, I can see why, with that missing, it looked like I was arguing with myself.

On page 1 I was against decreasing damage enmity - but only because it would interfere with the unnecessary enmity shift suggestions I was making at the time. On page 2, I scrapped all that, simplified it, and there was supposed to be a 3 1/2 sentence bit about that.

Oh well. I won't ninja edit it now, but it's there - in spirit.

Let me summarize up to this point what the most current form of my "cure" consists of, and drop the snarky attitude while I do it, so that I stop coming off as a cocky mad scientist douchehat:

General Battle Mechanics

-Reduce enmity generation from damage dealt
-Increase enmity generation from cures
-Increase enmity loss from damage received
-Adjust the damage and/or radius of lethal AOE
OR
-Adjust mob AI/behavior regarding the use of lethal AOE so that it has a logical pattern
-With above, increase NM "Readies" delay on their powerful signature moves
-Stop making mobs cause multiple status effects with 1 move or that are immune to most debuffs
-Not yet mentioned in this thread, but I don't think quite so many NMs/bosses need Dispelga spells/TP moves..


PLD Specific

-Addition of Job Abilities/Traits to enhance cover in a meaningful way (something along the lines of meat blocking everyone in alliance behind him while increasing his shield block rate)
-Remove Fealty/Chivalry as merit abilities and make them normal job abilities, with their recast and the recast of Cover reduced
-For the first freed up empty merit slot, use as a trait or ability that increase the effectiveness of Cover, or gives a -damage taken trait
-For the second freed up empty merit slot, allow to increase the damage multiplier of Atonement (in very small increments per upgrade obviously)
-Allow Shield and Cover a chance to block Physical AOE TP moves (was going to get to this but got caught up in gaming 101)
-Give PLD an aura that increases MDB (not -MDT) (was also going to cover this before I let myself get derailed)

That is the most current version of what I am proposing. Again, apologies for my blunder on page 2, which kinda caused the whole thread to move southward.. although Saevel seemed to be chomping at the bit looking for an argument!

[Economizer]

Numbers are everything in this game. You don't get the numbers right and you're trying to chip your enemy to death with a massive amount of TP feed while you have your Bards using useless Minne songs on you instead of Haste or Attack.

You don't get away with misrepresenting how the game works when trying to adjust it. If you're trying to adjust the game you have to know how it works at least on a level of basic competency or you'll just make it worse.

I do acknowledge you could misinterpret my remark about Cure IV.. It goes through phases and in the past it was numerically not an efficient or wise spell to repeatedly cast due to the ridiculously low amount of cure potency we were given. That is no longer the case..

There is no misinterpreting here unless you failed to say something. You said White Mages use Cure III and Cure V. We cannot have a good discussion on changes if we don't accurately portray the way people play, especially optimally.

Before the formula changes, if you were at just at level 70 with your Light Staff and Noble's Tunic, Cure IV was always MP efficient compared to the other cures, with the exception of Cure V's slight benefit, even before nice things like Afflatus Solace and Light Arts.

Even then, overcuring was a bad idea, especially since White Mage got maybe 1MP/tic Refresh unless you had support, and healing without a Red Mage or Bard breathing down your neck wasn't exactly going to be working out for you.

but a simple "You meant post-whatever-suggestions-you-just-mentioned right?" Instead of another small novel that only serves to reaffirm what I am already saying!

There is no reaffirmation or agreement stated. Please don't misrepresent others like you are misrepresenting the things you're trying to adjust.

Also, take into consideration that with the adjustments I suggested.. some cure potency might need to be sacrificed in order to get a decent -enmity value on our gear...

Any cure potency that would be sacrificed would merely drag down Cure V/VI further, due to the way cure potency works.

Any minute amounts of Healing Magic skill that would be removed would have the same effects, although it wouldn't impact main healers with significant skill, but instead mostly harm /WHM and /RDM that are trying to provide healing support without drawing enmity under any changes that increase cure enmity.

That said, no cure potency itself would be needed to be cut, although if you had read the Cure Formula Changes thread you'd have noted this from the suggested item sets given near the end. They themselves are even outdated, so you can actually get even more -enmity gear then listed. Considering that, it isn't that hard to have a decent cure set and -enmity at cap, although you'd have to expressly build for it.

But -enmity from gear and Tranquil Heart only go so far.

So yes, Cure IV would go out of style with cure enmity values adjusted per my suggestions...! And it's not like we don't have refresh up the wazoo.. I didn't have a difficult time using Cure V back at 75 cap.. I don't see it being a problem at 99 cap..?

Healers shouldn't be penalized for healing any more then they already are, and healing more at a single time should be more MP efficient then healing less. Really, directly affecting the enmity output of cures would cause too many problems for healers as is.

SE has already clearly stated that regarding cure enmity that they were looking into a job trait that would be the opposite of Tranquil Heart.

although Saevel seemed to be chomping at the bit looking for an argument!

Stating things as fact which are counter to what actually happens in the game tends to make players contradict you with horrible things known as facts.

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You want to fix Paladin? Keep the changes simple.

• Fix Enmity
  Don't screw over mages by directly increasing Cure enmity generation and don't expect damage dealers to have to hold back damage to let the tank keep being the main target.
• Fix Cover
  Turn Cover into a stanced ability that works on any party members behind the Paladin targeted by single target attacks. Increase duration to at least be half of the cast time, if not more. Adjust the merit category or remove it. If desired, have some buffs to cure spells cast on players behind the Paladin while under this effect, such as increased healing and enmity generation.

There are more ways someone could adjust Paladin but this would be by far the easiest to do. If Cover could be used about half the time or more pending the defense changes, Paladin would be useful enough until the enmity changes come into effect that it would be fairly okay.

With any adjustment you have to be weary of the consequences, wide reworks of how everything works, or every job ability and adding gimmicky abilities take forever to implement and are full of problems down the road, whereas smaller tweaks can make big differences.

[Sarick]

You want to fix Paladin? Keep the changes simple.

I agree with this.

Fix Enmity
Don't screw over mages by directly increasing Cure enmity generation and don't expect damage dealers to have to hold back damage to let the tank keep being the main target.

No one can explain a simple fix to enimity that I've seen. If we need complex math to show how it works then it's not simple.

Fix Cover
Turn Cover into a stanced ability that works on any party members behind the Paladin targeted by single target attacks. Increase duration to at least be half of the cast time, if not more. Adjust the merit category or remove it.

This was my original thought concept. After thought about it I choose a weaker version because it would create an opportunity for more player skill. I think protecting players behind them as in (You have to get past me first if you want to get to them) would work well. A problem is this type of tanking doesn't limit tanking to only enmity. It would be simple and very effective, maybe too effective if everyone behind the tank is automatically covered by the ability.

The reason I changed it slightly was because people think it's an easy button approach. It would allow the tank to protect well without maintaining enmity at all. All they would need to do is use cover and have everyone stand behind them. With this cover anyone who has hate that's behind the tank would be free to generate as much hate as they wanted and the tank would always be the one taking the hits most of the time for them.

In the case of multiple tanks using cover the enemy would need to make checks to get past each tank before running for or attacking a target that has hate behind the tank.