Enough is enough

[Yinnyth]

Before players will truly respond in a civil way we must be shown we are going to be treated with some respect to our opinion and ideas.

Please point me to any response from them which was half as vitriolic as we are to one another. We disrespect each other, the devs, the mods, and the GMs much more than they disrespect us.

Just because 10 supported ideas don't get implemented doesn't mean that being polite isn't your best bet. We got cheese sammiches. We got pulse cells. We got Dynamis changes (even though I oppose the hell out of them). After years of being requested, we got neo Salvage. Many things aren't the way you want them to be, however. Most people tell themselves "A MONKEY could do it better!" Then hire yourself a team of monkeys and make your own extremely popular MMO.

In a game with tens of thousands of players, all of whom have different ideas of what's good and what's bad, you should not be offended and angry when your idea does not get accepted anymore than you get offended when you don't win the lottery.

That is how I think this will turn out eventually, we are all shouting at SE, telling them what we think, at first, we are calm, then we get a bit loud, then we start getting angry, even insulting, and after some time, we will give up, and either deal with it, or leave.

There were people shouting at SE since before these forums. I was one of them. I've calmed down a bit since then. Nothing has changed in the way SE deals with things. The only thing that has changed is our expectations. Mine have lowered. Other people on these forums have raised their expectations.

The devs don't need crusaders to protect their widdle feelings from meany-weany posters. They have the delete button.

Honestly, does telling an angry person to calm down ever work? I think that you all know that you aren't doing anything but fanning the flames. Shame on you.

The hate-mongering lynch mob doesn't need protection either.

[Demon6324236]

Please point me to any response from them which was half as vitriolic as we are to one another. We disrespect each other, the devs, the mods, and the GMs much more than they disrespect us.

I personally would rather someone insult me, than flat out ignore me. I feel thats what SE does on a constant basis, ignore us. You listed changes we got, but many are things we did not ask for. We asked for VW drop rates to be fixed or to allow us to share drops, they have us a half assed version of that by allowing only the rarest of items to be shared, and originally in such a terrible way it would have NEVER been used. Only after we complained long enough did they change it, and even now, its still not nearly what we asked for or really needed. VW drops are still horrid, some items are still almost unobtainable, like Ephemeron, and we never got a real fix for it. We were ignored on many other subjects as well. But one way they definitely disrespect us, is when they give us 'reasons' something we ask for can not be done when the reason itself lacks any basic reasoning to it. Like the RDM SP, its basically Elemental Seal-1, anyone who knows the function of the JA can tell you thats basically what it is, but on a much longer timer, yet SE argues its useful and nothing like Elemental Seal.

I think its massivly disrespectful that the players opinions are often ignored even now, when we are being asked specifically what we want. I also think its disrespectful that a large majority of posts made on these forums in any non-JP area are really JP responces just translated into a different languages thread. We almost never get a unique responce to a question over in the english forums, almost everything is just translated from the JP forums and sent to us via a rep, but our actual questions mean nothing, because we are not asking on the JP forums.

SE does not come right out and insult us, no, but they do not treat us as though our opinions truly matter, or at least, I have never had mine treated as if it did. The OP lists a few different things the player base has asked for, for a very long time, and yet we are either denied or we are simply ignored when the question arises.

[FrankReynolds]

The hate-mongering lynch mob doesn't need protection either.

Nobody said they did. I was simply pointing out that anyone who doesn't work for SE really has no reason to be telling people what is and isn't proper etiquette for posting here. It's clear to me, the OP and probably everyone else that those people really have nothing to add and are just here to stir up the crap.

"I don't like your tone..." is a BS argument. No matter who you are. This may be a video game forum, but all the people using it (including the SE staff) are capable of ignoring people and things that bother them like adults.


If the OP had posted explicit photos, offensive memes, racial slurs, personal attacks or some other form of offensive material, this thread would have been shut down immediately. The fact of the matter is that a lot of what he said was spot on whether you like it or not and using his "tone" or "demeanor" as an argument against that is a cheap tactic that will never achieve anything other than causing people to post more of that.

There are only two kinds of people who shout "Stop acting like a baby!!!" at a screaming baby. Stupid people... and people who like making babies scream. Decent people either try to calm the baby or allow it the space to let of some steam.

Truth be told, the OP made a lot of very valid points. I agree that his tone was somewhat poor, but it's not like he's addressing someone who has done a lot to garner his respect. Making an awesome game doesn't mean that you are free of the the burden of being respectful to your customers. While many of the things we discuss on these boards simply cannot be done, that does not excuse the way that they have been handled.

It's fine to do whatever you want with your business, game etc., but if you ask people for their opinions and then allow them to post them in a public forum where everyone can see the results, then you owe them the respect of explaining your decisions at the very least. Asking people for their opinions just so that you can constantly ignore them and / or purposely do the opposite is a dick move no matter what culture you are from and you should expect no less than aggressiveness in response to that type of behavior.

Don't believe me? Try it in your personal life. Ask anybody that you are with what they want to do, where they want to go, or what they want to eat and then do what you know will piss them off the most without any explanation or even a response to their complaints and see how long it takes to end up lonely and bruised.

TLDR; SE is a corporation. Not a person. I don't care what the courts say. Their employees owe it to their shareholders and their customers to address the issues at hand, Not the attitude with which the issues are presented.

[Yinnyth]

I had a huge wall of text response for both of you which I just deleted because I knew it wouldn't be read. We're going to have to do this one topic at a time, so I'll let you pick the topic if you like. What irritates you the most about the devs of FFXI, and why?

Edit: I'll start us off with something. The Grind. We grind for exp. We grind for loot. We grind countless failures for a single success on some events (neo nyzul). We grind quests. We grind gil. The whole game feels like a grind.

Because the whole game is a grind. If you gear down the grind of the game too much, players like me wind up with nothing to do.

-=Ridculous grinds (Mythic Weapons, Skill ups) an gil = power (Relic Weapons) should have also been addressed.
-=Empy weapon system is still vulnerable to gil = power it still involves groups of players of 2-6 (Most of the time) to play together which this game doesn't really place high on the priority system any more.

I have never bought gil. I have never bought ancient currency. I have never bought empy items. I have never bought umbral marrow. I'm simply too poor IRL to even consider spending money on that kind of crap. Yet I have a level 99 gjallarhorn and 3 empies.

The whole game is a grind, and once you reach the top of the grind, there's nothing left to do. If you can already see that the game is a grind considering how low you are on the wheel, then you may as well give up now because you'll never enjoy it. I'm not saying this to be rude, this is simply the nature of RPGs. Once you start asking yourself "why am I grinding this?", it's beyond time to stop.