Mandau Vs Twashtar

[Ncr]

I tried looking for a forum that was already open but i could not find one.

I have been talking to my friends about which is better Mandau or Twashtar. There where pro and cons for both but we did not come up with a clear winner. I was just wondering, what do you guys think is the better dagger?

[Malthar]

Mandau. End thread.

[Babekeke]

Twashtar is good if you like to play DNC competitively too. Otherwise, Mandau.

[Elphy]

Mandau if you are purely thf

Twashtar if you play both thf and dnc or are purely dnc

Mandau for your thf and Twashtar for your dnc if you have the time and resources

pair up either one with a str thokcha and your golden, and if you do get both do not dual wield mandau/twashtar, you may think its better, but its not

[Yenecol]

I do not think it is as simple as people make it out to be. I went with a mandau thief friend to try out our numbers on some trolls. I was consistently outdamaging his mercy stroke with my rudra's storm by about 1k each time. Perhaps part of the difference is that I off-hand a TP bonus magian dagger and only go when I have 200tp. MS from my understanding gets no damage bonus from more TP.

I would say if your playstyle is to WS as soon as you hit 100, mandau is for you. However, if you like the idea of more consistent one-hit damage, Twashtar should not be ignored.

[Arcon]

I would say if your playstyle is to WS as soon as you hit 100, mandau is for you. However, if you like the idea of more consistent one-hit damage, Twashtar should not be ignored.

It makes no sense to save TP to more than 100% purposefully, unless it's for the beginning of a hard zerg (for which THF will not matter much). Rudra's at 200% TP with a TP Bonus offhand means 300% for every WS, which means 5.25 fTP instead of 4.25 fTP at 100% with the same offhand. However, it takes you twice as long to get to 200% as 100%, meaning you can do 2x 4.25 fTP WS or 1x 5.25 fTP WS, the first option being almost twice as good. The discrepancy gets even worse with a TP Bonus offhand. The only upside is the 40% ODD rate compared to the 30% ODD rate, but that still doesn't make up for the loss.

Also, your numbers mean very little. Was SA/TA used? What was your gear and which buffs did you have on?? What level for both weapons? What was the sample size and on which mobs? None of that really matters, though, as we have the math available. You can calculate which would be the best dagger for you without having to rely on unqualified anecdotes.

[Karbuncle]

I do not think it is as simple as people make it out to be. I went with a mandau thief friend to try out our numbers on some trolls. I was consistently outdamaging his mercy stroke with my rudra's storm by about 1k each time. Perhaps part of the difference is that I off-hand a TP bonus magian dagger and only go when I have 200tp. MS from my understanding gets no damage bonus from more TP.

I would say if your playstyle is to WS as soon as you hit 100, mandau is for you. However, if you like the idea of more consistent one-hit damage, Twashtar should not be ignored.

To add a little to what Arcon said, point for point Rudra's is a bit stronger than Mercy, however, Mercy benefits from a lot of things that aren't readily noticable if you're not... paying attention?

Mandau offers 40 Attack, great for everything ever.
Aftermath is 5% Critical hit rate bonus.
Always has OTD of about 11%.
60% STR mod + 30% WSDMG

Thwastar offers 20DEX
ODD of ~30/40% With max TP.
??% DEX Mod (I effing forgot okay!)

While they both have the same DPS, the attack bonus, critical hit rate bonus, and even that measly 10hp/tic poison from Mandau alone will make up for any amount of more WS Damage you can do with Rudra's. Eyeballing is never really a solid representation of power, but point for point, Mandau > Thwastar at 99 for THF, its just plain and simple.

Plus, the STR Mod really helps its case, as a lot of DEX gear comes with that lovely STR Already attached, and STR offers benefits to fSTR, so stacking it along with the mod itself is peachy. .... Or something.

Further, Offhanding a TP Bonus dagger, you're losing benefits of a STR Kila, which a Mandau can take full advantage of, which will further the gap in just white damage a bit further.

Regardless, Now, Thwast is not a bad weapon, not saying that at all, Its just slightly less awesome than Mandau. Pretty sure this has been show time over.

[Arcon]

To add a little to what Krabby said:

Mandau offers 40 Attack, great for everything ever.
Aftermath is 5% Critical hit rate bonus.
Always has OTD of about 11%.
60% STR mod + 30% WSDMG

It's actually +40% at 99, which is easier to get than even Twashtar 95, and the OTD is 13%.

Thwastar offers 20DEX
ODD of ~30/40% With max TP.
??% DEX Mod (I effing forgot okay!)

Also 60% DEX, which is actually pretty good, and potentially better than STR, because it can take full advantage of the DEX you equip for SA anyway. As usual, depends on the gear used and situation you're in. In terms of power Twashtar's Aftermath is considerably more powerful than Mandau's OTD, not only because of the significantly higher rate (30%) but also because of it can proc on any double/triple attack hits, which is significant for a THF. However, its biggest drawback is the duration, because it lasts for only 30s, while the Mandau's effect is permanent, so it probably wins in this regard, but it depends on how often you can couple Rudra's with SA/TA.

[Babekeke]

Not to mention that most THFs when fighting anything significant, are going to want to use TA Exenterator at some point: Partly because the AGI mod stacks great with Trick Attack, but also because -20 Acc on the mob that stacks with blind/flash, is not to be sniffed at.

And Mandau (40 att) beats Twashtar (20 DEX) in this respect as well.

[Nebo]

However, its biggest drawback is the duration, because it lasts for only 30s, while the Mandau's effect is permanent, so it probably wins in this regard, but it depends on how often you can couple Rudra's with SA/TA.

This is a big one. Not being able to stack WS and using Exent/Evisc really cuts into the aftermath benefits of Twashtar.

I can only speak for lvl 90 Twashtar (Although lvl 99 just adds a few points of dex and base damage), but I wish my Mandau was finished when it's difficult to stack WS.

In VW I can easily see Twashtar pulling ahead due to temps and lvl 3 aftermath, potentially abyssea as well due to boosted stats, better synergy with best DD atmas, and high rate ODD crits (meh, who cares about abyssea damage)?

But as a Twashtar owner, I find myself longing for that golden butter knife on several occasions. And its easier to make a post 90 mandau.

I sometimes feel like, with proper buffs and ideal positioning conditions, Twashtar might have a higher potential. (LIES, who lets a THF in the buffed DD party?) But I do not find myself in those situations very often.

Not to mention that most THFs when fighting anything significant, are going to want to use TA Exenterator at some point:

Is this really a thing? Granted I don't get on much these days after I came back from my long break so I still don't have the NNI gear, but I have never seen a TA Exent out damage a TA Rudra's.

Is TA Exent more potent and I'm just doing it wrong?