Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future

[Welp]

Regarding Dark Knight
Dark Knight is in need of major help because of the fact that it is perceived as slightly weaker than WAR and SAM, and therefore by elitist logic is "useless." "Loldrk" is treated like it's lightyears behind WAR and SAM by the general English-speaking FFXI community. I'm not saying this is true in terms of the jobs' actual power, but that's how the community views DRK.

And DRG is perceived as extremely weaker than all those jobs unless it has a mythic. When's the day when I can be a DRG, be one of the top 3 dd's in the game, and then complain that i'm not in the top 2. Hell DRG isn't even in the top 5 really. I think there is other jobs that need more work to be competitive than DRK at the moment.

[Kincard]

I'm aware that 1 handed utility jobs who have functions besides damage dealing are not = to the damage of jobs who function to do just damage with 2 handed weapons.

You don't seem to understand that I was saying that every single job has something unique to it even if you ignore damage dealing. A warrior has a powerful way of quickly doing area damage (Fell cleave + Retaliation) and variability in weapons. A dark knight can absorb. A dragoon can do a number of things with their wyvern. This utility you speak of isn't limited to the light jobs only.

Please address the actual % you are claiming the game unfairly treats one handed jobs.

As Motenten pointed out, against a high level target, the way the calculations in the game work already by default cap a one-hander job to 25% less damage than a 2 hander job. When you factor in the whole "one handers can't cap acc/atk as easily" bit, the gap becomes even wider. I wouldn't be surprised if properly buffed two-hander jobs were doing at least 50% more damage than a one-hander job.

what utility jobs bring to the table is useless. Make that utility more useful and it simply becomes a playerbase issue

Your argument is that utility makes up for gaps in damage. I am here to tell you that aside from 2 handers providing utility of their own, this is not true. It doesn't matter what "utility" my blue mage brings, it's not going to make up for the fact that a 2 hander can, by default, do 25% more damage than I can, and reach this max much easier.

Currently the only "utility" from light jobs people care about at all is Treasure Hunter, and that is a really forced and idiotic system (Make all drop rates really low so people are encouraged to bring THF to make drop rates not abyssmal). Even if they fixed things like Tourbillion, or Yurin/Aisha, or Sambas, one-handers will still not hold any merit versus high level targets because the gap is simply far too large.

This doesn't mean we don't care about utility, but fixing it isn't going to solve anyting like you are implying it would.

tl;dr it doesn't matter how much they adjust utility, one handers will still be a waste of a slot.

Its either Full Merited, or nothing

nope

[Sasaraixx]

Camate,

Thank you for passing on the information and for the clarification. I am really happy to see these plans are being considered. As a career mage, I've always wished that the elements were more balanced. I'd be ecstatic if this idea could be extended one step further and have elemental weaknesses play a role in damage calculations. It should be minor, but enough to encourage all mages to target an enemies weakness if they have one and could also help close the gap between melee and magic. This would also apply to elemental WS as well.

(As an aside, I've been using Shantotto in Dissidia 012 quite a lot recently. I remember thinking the other day how nice it was that each of the elements she uses in battle has its own strategic value and how fun it would be if that were the case in FFXI. Great timing! (*^_^) )

I would add that I wish there was mention of the enmity adjustments that were supposed to be under consideration a long time ago. There are 3 jobs that have abilities/spells tied to this mechanic and they would see a much needed boost if those abilities actually had strategic value. I think many of us would like to know what the dev team is thinking in regards to this.

And we have seen the teams willingness to address jobs/abilities that are too powerful (Embrava, Perfect Defense, now DRK). It would also be nice if we could also see a detailed response about those jobs lagging behind. I don't really consider myself a RDM, but even I am starting to wonder what the team is thinking.

[saevel]

Holy sh!t. I've never been for a rate down button on this forum but right now I'm extremely close. Are people still demanding nerfs to WAR/DRK resolution out of spite instead of the appropriate buffs to Entropy / Upheaval / MT?

Nerfing Res / Rag won't change a damn thing. DRK's use it because Scyth sucks right now, haste gear is so easy to acquire that Apoc's lost much of it's usefulness in pure damage. Still rocks for DRK PDT tanking though. WAR's switch between Ukko / Res depending on their target. Rag is just more convenient to acquire. You can spam dyna every day for the currency and build it vs Ukko requiring you to farm Abyssea's NMs, one of which is an annoying sh!t to build pop sets for.

The whole reason you see WAR + DRK as the top DD's is due to how high their damage potential can be buffed to. There is nothing that throwing more buffs onto them can't fix, vs SAM and DRG which have natural limitations imposed on them. DRG must chose between /WAR and /SAM, and SAM's GKT smacks into a damage ceiling which nothing can be done about (low total fTP on Shoha and Fudo). 1H all suck in situations when your fighting high level targets for the reasons Moten already stated. Their actually competitive when fighting ~7 LCF targets though or when everyone is underbuffed (low man / small man fights).

If people are going to comments on the relative damage hierarchy, at least understand why it is the way it is. Otherwise your just muddying up the waters even further and have become counter productive.

-=Edit=-

SAM and DRG do have a method of overcoming their systematic limits. Their respective mythics are world shaking awesomeness. Being mythics their incredibly rare and often left out of the damage comparison. A Ryunohige DRG and Kogarasumaru SAM are on equal footing as a Rag / Ukon DRK / WAR. Conqueror is also a pretty epic weapon though Upheaval could use some adjusting.

[Demon6324236]

Regarding Content

To start off, we are looking into adjustments for new Nyzul, Legion, Odin's Chamber II, Voidwatch (up to Provenance Watcher), Salvage, and in the event there is further necessity, new Salvage as well.

Below is what we are looking into for adjustments.

• New Nyzul
  • Adjustments to the warp range of floors
• Legion
  • Adjustments to monster levels
  • Adjustments to attack power and defense
• Odin's Chamber II
  • Adjustments to monster levels
• Voidwatch
  • Expand the usage range of the void clusters to Provenance (Provenance Watcher)
• Salvage
  • Re-examine the drop rate of level 35 equipment
  • Make a change so that monsters other than the NMs that spawn from ramparts in Bhaflau Remnants drop the same equipment
• Walk of Echoes
  • Adjustments to monster levels
  • Remove EX status from each type of coin
  • Add sacks that contain multiple Devious Die and Liminal Residue

Past this, we will continue to make adjustments as necessary, and we will be making it so strategy and play style variations can be developed instead of having to win with a huge amount of fire power in a short amount of time.

Since this part has been mostly left alone by people it seems, I would like to give my input on it.

The change to Nyzul is good, however it seems like it stays true to the most annoying thing about the event itself. Adjusting the range of floor warps, this could either be increasing or decreasing it, for now I assume it will be increased. The problem with this is that currently the most annoying thing about the event is the amount of luck needed to win. By increasing the range that you can jump, say for example, from 2~11 up to 2~15 it is making it possible for you to get higher numbers, and improving the average, however a massive luck factor remains. So while this is an improvement, I would like to see something changed that takes some of the luck out of the event itself if possible.

Legion changes sound nice, I personally have not done much of it, however I think part of the problem with the event is also the most recently added mob families such as Gallu and Naraka have some very overpowering special attacks, which also need to be looked into. For example, Oblivion's Mantle, strong damage, weakness, and 10-count doom, from a single attack, seems fairly unbalanced. This is not only effecting Legion, but it is part of the problem with the event I believe because unlike in Voidwatch, which is where you encounter them the most, you have no real shield against them besides the soon to be nerfed Perfect Defense.

Voidwatch, well, allowing clusters to be used on Provenance means that a lot more people will be getting the gear they want from that event, seeing as the drop rates on his gear are not all to terrible so far as I know, and shout groups will be able to clear the fight much more easily. However, this is not the adjustment most people are looking for in VW, while this will make many people happy, we still wait to hear something about a change to drop rates or how to obtain them. Sometime recently we heard that our wonderful new producer likes point systems, and I would not be surprised if I was not the only one hoping that he will include one here. This post does not mention it, but I would like to know if there are any plans of something such as that for the future of Voidwatch. Many people have complained since its introduction into the game about drop rates and the massive luck involved in even the higher drop rate items. People have killed these monsters hundreds of times without seeing their rewards drop, can we please get some form of update that will change this very annoying and angering system?

Salvage is a great change, it will help people get both the new and old gear, and will hopefully make the event much more popular and worth doing. Not sure that there is much else to say on this subject other than thank you, and even though it took a very long time for these changes to be announced that they are being planed on, I think it is still a great thing to be doing.

While I think the changes to Walk of Echoes will not change most peoples minds about making the Trials of Magian versions of Emp weapons, I do think it is a good idea to make these changes as it will hope those who do want to make them or have been in the process of it. One of my primary hopes about this however is that perhaps we will not have to see only pet jobs able to fight in the event, as I know for now it seems as though if you are not a SMN, PUP, or BST, then you are effectively worthless in the battle.



Since we have had a few questions directly answered in this thread it seems, I would like to ask one or two myself if possible. Is there any chance we will be seeing a point system in Voidwatch sometime before the release of Seekers, and if so, how might it work? I recall talk of Crystal Petrifacts being used for something else when the Chocobo Blinker nerf was done, and the ability to trade them for cruor was held back, around the same time is when we heard that we may be seeing more point system like functions in the game. So I would also like to know if they might be involved in something like that, or what the current plans are for Crystal Petrifacts outside of Provenance.

[Toadie-Odie]

[...]

Voidwatch, well, allowing clusters to be used on Provenance means that a lot more people will be getting the gear they want from that event, seeing as the drop rates on his gear are not all to terrible so far as I know, and shout groups will be able to clear the fight much more easily. However, this is not the adjustment most people are looking for in VW, while this will make many people happy, we still wait to hear something about a change to drop rates or how to obtain them. Sometime recently we heard that our wonderful new producer likes point systems, and I would not be surprised if I was not the only one hoping that he will include one here. This post does not mention it, but I would like to know if there are any plans of something such as that for the future of Voidwatch. Many people have complained since its introduction into the game about drop rates and the massive luck involved in even the higher drop rate items. People have killed these monsters hundreds of times without seeing their rewards drop, can we please get some form of update that will change this very annoying and angering system?

[...]

Since we have had a few questions directly answered in this thread it seems, I would like to ask one or two myself if possible. Is there any chance we will be seeing a point system in Voidwatch sometime before the release of Seekers, and if so, how might it work? I recall talk of Crystal Petrifacts being used for something else when the Chocobo Blinker nerf was done, and the ability to trade them for cruor was held back, around the same time is when we heard that we may be seeing more point system like functions in the game. So I would also like to know if they might be involved in something like that, or what the current plans are for Crystal Petrifacts outside of Provenance.

I share the same questions. I gave up on VoidWatch when my fellows became increasingly upset with the drop system. While I can play hardcore, I would much rather chill, relax, and have fun. Going to an event that quickly beomes a rant-fest is not fun. Even the hardcore side of me is asking "what is the point?"

I enjoy things that are challenging but the prize should be equal to that of the challenge. A bazillion logs that I can't use is not an equivalent exchange for my effort and time to fight any Notorious Monster.

[Kincard]

I think the changes to Walk of Echoes will not change most peoples minds about making the Trials of Magian versions of Emp weapons

This is especially true because this is coming alongside a significant change to the availability of merit WSs to our secondary/tertiary jobs. If they want people to be enticed to spend a significant amount of time and/or gil to obtain WoE weapons, they need to either strengthen those weapons, or greatly reduce the dice/residue required so the reward seems good for the effort.

[TheBarrister]

If people are going to comments on the relative damage hierarchy, at least understand why it is the way it is. Otherwise your just muddying up the waters even further and have become counter productive.

Stop making sense now. If my Thief or Dancer or <insert other 1H job here> can't do at least 90% of the damage as a 2H then I'll be stuck at soloing Dynamis better, evading better, curing myself better, using magic in a pinch better, ad nauseum.

[TheBarrister]

This is especially true because this is coming alongside a significant change to the availability of merit WSs to our secondary/tertiary jobs. If they want people to be enticed to spend a significant amount of time and/or gil to obtain WoE weapons, they need to either strengthen those weapons, or greatly reduce the dice/residue required so the reward seems good for the effort.

A big enticement for me to do Walk of Echoes would be for it to drop heavy metal pouches.

Also why can't crystal petrifacts be traded in for voidstones, or something worthwhile like 1 gil or higher?

[Demon6324236]

Also why can't crystal petrifacts be traded in for voidstones, or something worthwhile like 1 gil or higher?

Petrifacts --> Voidstones would create an infinite cycle that would result in unlimited stones, if that were to happen, the stone system itself would become pointless in every way. Conversion to gil is a bad idea because of the reason that, like blinkers, it would create gil from nothing, harming the economy.