Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future

[Yinnyth]

If you always ignore people who disagree with you, then I'm afraid no one will ever be able to convince otherwise when you make absolute statements such as:

Magic will never ~EVER~ be anywhere close to melee damage until SE makes nukes cast much faster.

There are always other options.

[scaevola]

That was one reason why: mages didn't feel magey.

Based on what?

[Yinnyth]

Based on what?

To be honest, based on my own personal opinions. You can feel free to like other games as much as you like. But I prefer when magic systems are either complicated and difficult to work towards your needs (Magicka, for example), or at the very least a completely different system from other characters. In FFXI, the mages are seperated from the melees not only in what they can do, but in how long it takes them to do it. I would rather have mages take 10 seconds to do 10,000 damage than take 1 second to do 1,000 damage.

This is just my personal opinion on the matter, however. It is important that each person has an opinion of their own and discusses it.

[Athomik]

All i see from SE is NERF NERF NERF all the good things this game has and break all our fun , everytime you change anything on game everything goes wrong , and more people stop to play the game , i hope this isn't on purpose to see if we move to 14 cause that will never happen we won't spend again years of our live like we did for 11 to do time consumin things like hell and such other things,,, just stop it with nerfs and finally bring something really good so we all can have fun and play it excitment has we want .

[Demon6324236]

All you see is nerfs, what I see is them legitimately trying to make the game better by not having a series of zergs as the entity of the meat of content. What is Meebles? Zerg everything is most of the objectives, thats all the bosses are. What is VW? Zerg all of the NMs riding temps from procs. What is Dynamis? You proc things and then zerg them to death, or if its a NM, simply zerg it do death riding PD. What is Legion? You zerg NMs to death riding PD. What is Salvage? You zerg specific enemies for pathos removal, then once you get far enough in you just zerg everything else down unless it is special and effects a NM spawn. What is Odin II? Zerg. Limbus? Zerg. See my point here? We do a slight variation on the same thing for nearly every event in the game released since post-Abyssea, Abyssea did the same thing mostly, but you had to proc still, and some mobs had gimmicks that hurt zerging like absorbing damage.

So where you see armies of nerfs, in this case I actually see a chance they will do a good thing.

[Dreamin]

All you see is nerfs, what I see is them legitimately trying to make the game better by not having a series of zergs as the entity of the meat of content. What is Meebles? Zerg everything is most of the objectives, thats all the bosses are. What is VW? Zerg all of the NMs riding temps from procs. What is Dynamis? You proc things and then zerg them to death, or if its a NM, simply zerg it do death riding PD. What is Legion? You zerg NMs to death riding PD. What is Salvage? You zerg specific enemies for pathos removal, then once you get far enough in you just zerg everything else down unless it is special and effects a NM spawn. What is Odin II? Zerg. Limbus? Zerg. See my point here? We do a slight variation on the same thing for nearly every event in the game released since post-Abyssea, Abyssea did the same thing mostly, but you had to proc still, and some mobs had gimmicks that hurt zerging like absorbing damage.

So where you see armies of nerfs, in this case I actually see a chance they will do a good thing.

But the player base has ALWAYS been about ZERG. For those that love the old stuff (pre abyssea), there are the Colibris merit camp, AV Zerg attempt (and then SE whack everyone on the head and took that away), PW, old school Dynamis (pull/sleepga/ZERG for regular mobs and ZERG+Cure Bombs on Bosses), Einherjar, etc, etc...Reason the playerbase end up going that route is because it IS the most efficient way to kill and accomplish things.

In their fantasy, SE keep thinking that they can influence the playerbase to get away from such. Do you know why they keep having that fantasy??? Because the producer/director does NOT understands how the playerbase AT ALL. NONE. ZERO. If they really honestly want to influence the playerbase, they need to become one themselves 1st and foremost.

[Horadrim]

But the player base has ALWAYS been about ZERG. For those that love the old stuff (pre abyssea), there are the Colibris merit camp, AV Zerg attempt (and then SE whack everyone on the head and took that away), PW, old school Dynamis (pull/sleepga/ZERG for regular mobs and ZERG+Cure Bombs on Bosses), Einherjar, etc, etc...Reason the playerbase end up going that route is because it IS the most efficient way to kill and accomplish things.

In their fantasy, SE keep thinking that they can influence the playerbase to get away from such. Do you know why they keep having that fantasy??? Because the producer/director does NOT understands how the playerbase AT ALL. NONE. ZERO. If they really honestly want to influence the playerbase, they need to become one themselves 1st and foremost.

I understand what you're trying to say, but this sentence makes no sense -- and the idea is a little asinine.

To understand how to fix an improve some of the games elements what they need to accept is that their ideas about what the game should be don't mean shit. The teams working on FFXi have, for a long time, had an incestuous love affair with this bastardized view of how the game should work and do their best to forego logical changes that would make it better for everyone involved.

No, I don't mean changes that we beg for, I mean changes that would fix things -- whether we like them or not. The biggest problem is they swing, rather obnoxiously, between listening to the player base way too much and listening to them way too little. There's never a happy median between the two extremes and more often than not we end up with 30% of the games jobs being useless for most of its content.

Since Abyssea released (Which I think was a logical evolution of the game executed rather poorly), DRG, PUP, SCH, PLD, RDM, and RNG have lost significant bearings (some of them even before that). SCH only got back in because of Neo Nyzul, and that's about it. Frankly, in my opinion, serious adjustments should have been made to the entire job system to re-balance it before they even started considering new jobs. Some jobs should have lost things, some should have gained things, and the end result should have been a set of 20 jobs rebalanced for universal usefulness and utility.

Instead we're about to get tossed two more overlapping jobs and system changes we can only hope fix some of the issues -- yet that people who know the numbers behind the game, as you can see above, are already pointing out might not even have that huge of an effect.

Frankly, I wish they'd working on balanced, strategic challenges and content instead of flashy, gimmicky nonsense meant to just waste our time and so poorly designed that it makes a quarter of the jobs in the game irrelevant.

[Demon6324236]

Not only that but are you going to be changing elemental magic more radically? Last time it was mentioned the update would have basically doubled BLM's damage it seemed like, but with all of the DDs getting double damaged weapons, we would need elemental magic to at very least be tripled to stand up to it now...

[Yenecol]

It doesn't really work that way pal. It's all or bust on these weapon skills. Quit being D-bags and trolling us with this crap. Allow us to fully merit them all. Anything less than 5/5 merits is more or less worthless.


WTF is wrong with you guys? Why do you always have to find a weird annoying roundabout way to implement things? Why can't you ever just do what makes sense? I promise you that the world will not explode just because for once you did Exactly what the people wanted.

This is the best post I have ever read on these forums. I agree 100%. 5/5 or no one will want them anyway!

[Alhanelem]

This is the best post I have ever read on these forums. I agree 100%. 5/5 or no one will want them anyway!

Foolhardy post. With the changes they are proposing, the difference between 3/5 ~ 4/5 and 5/5 is almost negligible. This change also makes the WS when initially unlocked a lot less sucky for when you're meriting it up. Many of the new WS will still outperform other popular WS even with 3/5.

Asking to have all of them maxable is like asking for one to be able to max every skill in every tree in games with skill/talent trees. The whole reason those exist is to create a decision for the player that makes one player different from another, and it is the reason merits exist too. I totally agree the current scheme is too restricting but what they're doing is at least a step in the right direction. If the max points were 25, you could max 5 or put 4 in 6 or 3 in 8 or some mix thereof. I think this is totally reasonable without applying the "gimme everything' mentality.

This change also makes the WS merits a lot like many of the job specific ones- Actually useful with the first point and buffed up with the rest, rather than "useless until you max it."