The State of Tanking in FFXI

[Sarick]

Sentinels in FFXIII are incredibly sturdy tanks with some abilities that I think should make their FFXI debut.

Challenge: In FFXIII, this is an upgraded Provoke. In FFXI, Challenge would essentially be Paladin's version of the Warrior's Provoke. Challenge should put the user at the absolute top of the hate list and substantially reduce enmity for other players on the monster's hate list. It should also cause the user's enmity to decay at a slower rate.

I suggested something like this months ago and called it "Champion" It's better suited for the PLD. The difference is it's not a hate gaining tool but a hate passiveness effect. It reduces the hate of others in the enemy hate pool while maintaining the PLDS.

Fringeward: In FFXIII, this trait reduces AoE damage dealt to other party members when the Sentinel is the primary target of the attack. It should have the same function in FFXI, although I'd prefer it to be a job ability rather than a trait in exchange for higher potency. Or, if you really don't mind PLD being useful, you could make it a potent job trait, to the point that simply having a Paladin in the party is a boon because it reduces the ridiculousness of NM's AoE attacks. Fringeward could even be PLD's selling point; the ability that defines the job. Paladin protects others by reducing damage taken by the party, like Sentinel in FFXIII.

I like this but would also think changes to cover are needed. First reduce the recast of cover to about one minute and have it last one minute. Second make it an automatic cone effect behind the PLD for the enemy he/she is engaged with. While on the PLD automatically attempts to COVER any nearby party/alliance member attacked behind the PLD that he/she is fighting. To keep things in check It only covers attacks made by the enemies they are directly engaged with.

Cover attempts are made AOES are forced to be focused on the PLD when successfully covered, this makes the blunt of the AOE target the PLD. This cover will activate on both magical and physical attacks provided the PLD is directly engaged with the enemy attacking or casting. The success of a cover starts at 90% and reduces 10% for each successful covers till it hits a minimum of 20% or the duration ends. To keep hate in check with each cover hate is taken from the covered player as though they where attacked instead of the PLD.

Or you could go the classic FF route, where Paladins/Knights are the strongest (or close to it) simply because of swords' significance in our culture. Give Paladin a job trait that doubles damage dealt with every attack when wielding swords and it will be relevant again, and sadly, not even overpowered. And honestly, swords are among the most useful melee weapons. Scythes, greatswords, and greataxes all have major issues with simply wielding the weapon. The katana used by ninja in videogames (the ones wielded with the blades backwards or upside-down) are fictional and impractical. Spears have too much recoil on impact and are ineffective in close combat. Great katana (decorative katana in real life) have the same recoil issue on impact, as well as issues with durability due to thinness and length. Small- to medium-length swords and knives are where it's at in real life for melee weapons.

Why not just give them a chance to auto counterbash (without stun) with a shield block or increase the duration and effect of the spell reprisal? Making PLDs DD isn't the solution. Changing them to them a better tanks is IMHO the best utility for the job. It's a TANK protector.

IMHO COVER is a super weak link on PLD the ability needs modified to make the job better as main or subjob. Change cover to protect ALL nearby allies behind them not just the one player behind them. Hate it or like it IMHO SE isn't going to make PLD a DD Job.

At least with cover changes like these they can truly be a TANK even with the bad enmity system. PLD shouldn't need the highest hate to tank effectively. This is a BIG issue that needs fixed for enemies that reset hate or DDs who can't go full out on damage. With changes to cover these DDs will still get hit just the PLD tank will be able to mitigate some of the attacks to them if they lose hate.

Some players may argue that this might make the PLD tank to well, I counter with WTF! If they're a tank and can't do massive amounts of damage like the DD's they're grouped with then they need something else to get a spot in an alliance. They must have something SPECIAL worth putting them in that slot over a DD. Since DAMAGE OUTPUT isn't a option they need to be equally useful in DEFENDING others who can provide better output if a PLD is used to mitigate damage. DD's should be allowed to Zerg but not 100% protected by the tank if they do. I Sincerely think fixing cover is the KEY to doing this.

I assure you make these changes and PLD will be a bad ass job that will make them worth while party spots in a lot more situations. Not just used for holding extra spawns.

Anyone that thinks that the cover changes I suggested are stupid please chime in I haven't seen anyone make anything even remotely better suited for making PLD a more viable tank without adding extra abilities or fudging with hate. In previous FF games cover was automatic and a trait/skill. I think having it as a trait would be broken because you wouldn't want it on in some cases. I also think it should have a duration that matches the recast and be easy to recast if dispelled.

Also a it'd be nice if they was able to use paralyna and poisona at level 25-30ish.

[Chocobits]

Here is the ultimate suggestion:

Combine PLD and DRK into one job. Then you have a job that can switch between offense and defense, generate and hold enmity with a wide variety of tools, have more survival tools, and has a plethora of weapons to choose from.

Listing off what this fixes:

Lack of damage output: Fixed
Lack of enmity generated due to lack of damage output: Fixed
Lack of volatile enmity: Fixed
Lack of ability to stay at hate cap: Fixed
Lack of self sufficiency: Fixed

Combine that with some adjustments to mob AI and attack power regarding AOE, and you have yourselves a FINE old game. Spit shined and ready to play.

[Rustic]

Here is the ultimate suggestion:

Combine PLD and DRK into one job. Then you have a job that can switch between offense and defense, generate and hold enmity with a wide variety of tools, have more survival tools, and has a plethora of weapons to choose from.

Listing off what this fixes:

Lack of damage output: Fixed
Lack of enmity generated due to lack of damage output: Fixed
Lack of volatile enmity: Fixed
Lack of ability to stay at hate cap: Fixed
Lack of self sufficiency: Fixed

Combine that with some adjustments to mob AI and attack power regarding AOE, and you have yourselves a FINE old game. Spit shined and ready to play.

So basically, Red Mage with better weapon skills and armor. ^ ^

[zataz]

while i dont care if they fix this or not people wanted 99 so we got it u cant complain about ideas we had that they used just another example of how the inmates should not run the asylum.

[Zagen]

while i dont care if they fix this or not people wanted 99 so we got it u cant complain about ideas we had that they used just another example of how the inmates should not run the asylum.

Huh? Are you trying to say tanking worked fine at 75? If so then you're sadly mistaken it was broken then too.

[Shenul]

Since everyone pretty much agrees that Cover is pretty useless currently (but a neat idea when we all first saw it), do to Cover what they did for WHMs and Divine Seal. Divine Veil makes all status removals AoE instead of single target. So why not have a Job Trait that does the same for Cover? Extended Cover could extend the range of cover to anyone on the same side of the mob as the PLD, and lowers the enmity for all of those players.

And please, just extend the duration to a minute for the base!

[Chocobits]

So basically, Red Mage with better weapon skills and armor. ^ ^

And skill ratings, and job abilities, and job traits that provide exactly what a tank REALLY needs.

[Chocobits]

Huh? Are you trying to say tanking worked fine at 75? If so then you're sadly mistaken it was broken then too.

Tanking worked fine at 75.. if you had two PLD/NIN bouncing hate and your only damage was primarily RNG and BLM, with occasional WAR/THF, SAM/THF or BLU/THF rushing in for spike damage and enmity planting (they TP'd on mobs outside of alliance). You could have a quick fight with a mob more or less planted in 1 spot. And yes, this was LOL but those of us that did it thought we were cool at the time. Memories. ^_^

[Zagen]

Tanking worked fine at 75.. if you had two PLD/NIN bouncing hate and your only damage was primarily RNG and BLM, with occasional WAR/THF, SAM/THF or BLU/THF rushing in for spike damage and enmity planting (they TP'd on mobs outside of alliance). You could have a quick fight with a mob more or less planted in 1 spot. And yes, this was LOL but those of us that did it thought we were cool at the time. Memories. ^_^

Ah I remember those days, where I thought SMN was the "best" DD because it was hate free lol. Glad they were done and gone once people learned how to buff via gear, food, and BRDs. Even before Sushi the singular tank role only existed for those who were scared, inexperienced, or attached to the concept. I can't think of a single NM/HNM from the 75 days that "required" a tank once people actually learned how to fight them and what to expect.

[Rustic]

And skill ratings, and job abilities, and job traits that provide exactly what a tank REALLY needs.

Exactly. Way to go at stomping RDM even further into the dirt there.

The enmity system is the linchpin of any successful way to "tank" in modern FFXI play. Until it's fixed, slapping together all that on anyone isn't going to give us a tank. It'll just give us someone who hits the cap sooner and watches their work vanish in a hail of DD.