The State of Tanking in FFXI

[Keyln]

I have three suggestions to improve general tanking in FFXI.

1) Heavily modify the enmity system - I say heavily modify as opposed to completely ditch because enmity or hate is a very common staple in just about every MMO. However, where FFXI splits off is that hate is a secondary issue in most other MMOs, and in FFXI, it's why most tanks have issues. In most other MMO's, the sign of a good tank isn't if the tank managed to keep the enemy from munching on the other players, but if the tank minimized the damage he took while tanking.

For this reason, I'd suggest giving PLDs (and other tanks) an "Enmity bonus" trait. This trait raises the enmity cap for the job, and as a result, makes it more likely for the tank to never lose hate, even if the other DD jobs are going full on damage.

2) Modify the defense value contribution - While I won't go into the whole damage formula, but I do think that SE should take a second look at the contribution defense makes in the damage formula. In short, jobs that can have a high defense should barely take any damage from an enemy attack as opposed to jobs with a low defense should die (or almost die) from the same attack.

3) Have better fight mechanics - It's understandable why the enmity system in the game was designed as such. If a monster had no AoE to speak of, a straight sword 'n board would be boring, and not very dangerous for the rest of the party. One of the ways to make the fights dangerous is to introduce AoE attacks that wipe entire parties.

However, in other MMO's, they get around this by having fight mechanics which people need to pay attention to, or they die. Some of the varieties include stunning certain moves, killing things in a certain order, standing and moving away from certain spot because a move will hit there, and other things.

While I do realize that there are limitations on the engine that SE is using for FFXI, I'd be willing to bet that there can be innovative and interesting fights that can get away from the old "AoE" mechanic.

[Alhanelem]

I don't need 20 paragraphs to tell you what's wrong with tanking in this game.

Two Words; Enmity Cap.

[Demon6324236]

I don't need 20 paragraphs to tell you what's wrong with tanking in this game.

Two Words; Enmity Cap.

Two more for you, AoE spam. Simply change the enmity cap, tell me how that will change tanking against most current endgame mobs. I would love to know how a stable tank would help against the army of recently released mobs that AoE to no end, so please inform us. Sorry to inform you, however the enmity cap is not the only problem, or even the biggest in my opinion, because even if they fix it, it will not change most current mobs you would even want a real tank to handle.

[Alhanelem]

Two more for you, AoE spam. Simply change the enmity cap, tell me how that will change tanking against most current endgame mobs. I would love to know how a stable tank would help against the army of recently released mobs that AoE to no end, so please inform us. Sorry to inform you, however the enmity cap is not the only problem, or even the biggest in my opinion, because even if they fix it, it will not change most current mobs you would even want a real tank to handle.

No, the biggest problem is our primary dedicated tank class can't actually tank because basically every other job can cap enmity in seconds making it impossible for him to get hate. Enmity is the biggest problem facing *tanking*. AoE spam is a problem for everybody, not just tanks.

[Carth]

I don't need 20 paragraphs to tell you what's wrong with tanking in this game.

Two Words; Enmity Cap.

The Enmity cap while an issue is actually small compared to how enmity is actually generated. As said before, damage is the #1 method to gaining hate on a mob because everything else pales in comparison. Job Abilities are generally VE, which decays over time. Cures and Flash are CE which is only aided by the use of Sentinel and Enmity gear.

Just simply raising the cap from 20,000 to 200,000 will do nothing. In fact, with how Enmity generation works it'd just make PLD more obsolete, because DDs will reach the cap faster than PLD, and it'll take even longer for PLD to catch up.

[Keyln]

The Enmity cap while an issue is actually small compared to how enmity is actually generated. As said before, damage is the #1 method to gaining hate on a mob because everything else pales in comparison. Job Abilities are generally VE, which decays over time. Cures and Flash are CE which is only aided by the use of Sentinel and Enmity gear.

Just simply raising the cap from 20,000 to 200,000 will do nothing. In fact, with how Enmity generation works it'd just make PLD more obsolete, because DDs will reach the cap faster than PLD, and it'll take even longer for PLD to catch up.

The question here, though, is what if PLD had a trait that effectively increased the enmity cap while the other jobs stayed at the old enmity cap.

This is one of the tricks that other MMO's use to help certain jobs tank.

[Carth]

The question here, though, is what if PLD had a trait that effectively increased the enmity cap while the other jobs stayed at the old enmity cap.

This is one of the tricks that other MMO's use to help certain jobs tank.

This was actually talked about in the thread I referenced in the OP, and I'm inclined to agree with the consensus.

A trait that raises the enmity cap for PLD would be very useful, but it's would actually switch our issue to the opposite side, where it'd be too easy for PLD to tank, and it would nullify NIN, WAR, THF, etc. Personally, I'm not against the idea but there are more jobs besides PLD that can tank, even if just for short amounts of time.

[Keyln]

This was actually talked about in the thread I referenced in the OP, and I'm inclined to agree with the consensus.

A trait that raises the enmity cap for PLD would be very useful, but it's would actually switch our issue to the opposite side, where it'd be too easy for PLD to tank, and it would nullify NIN, WAR, THF, etc. Personally, I'm not against the idea but there are more jobs besides PLD that can tank, even if just for short amounts of time.

It depends on how it's implemented really. Just like there are multiple tiers of Defense Bonus, Attack Bonus, Accuracy Bonus, etc., Enmity Bonus could have tiers that raises the enmity cap above normal. Jobs that are designed around tanking can have higher tiers while other jobs could have lower tiers, or will have to sub in a tank job to get to the higher tiers. The devil's in the details, I'll admit, but it can be done right.

The whole purpose, though, is to make getting and keeping enmity easy, and allow tanks to focus on the one thing that matters, damage mitigation.

[Bilonn]

This was actually talked about in the thread I referenced in the OP, and I'm inclined to agree with the consensus.

A trait that raises the enmity cap for PLD would be very useful, but it's would actually switch our issue to the opposite side, where it'd be too easy for PLD to tank, and it would nullify NIN, WAR, THF, etc. Personally, I'm not against the idea but there are more jobs besides PLD that can tank, even if just for short amounts of time.

Not necessarily, if done right.
First: make this an Ability, not a Trait. This keeps it from being permanent-say 1m30 per use, recast at 3m00.
Second: Give only a small increase to the cap. Say the cap is 1000, well, the ability gives you an enmity cap of 1050--just enough to hold more hate than anyone else.
Third: Make it have a hate drain. Enmity lowers at a double rate when enmity is over the standard 1000 cap.

There, I fixed this.

So, with this ability:
1: Use the ability.
2: Use another ability or spell to gain hate to get into the overcap level.
[Paladin now has the mob's sole attention]
3: Continue gaining hate quickly with more abilities. You're not going to keep that extra hate long. If you go too long before provoking, flourishing, subjob hate gain abilitying, flash, etc., or else your hate is going to be down below the normal cap of 1000 in 15-20 seconds, and then someone else is going to be the new target.

Make it give you a little room to work over the cap for a limited time, and make you have to work to keep it there. It doesn't give you 'free' max enmity, it doesn't let you go overcap and stay there. You have to skillfully use the ability and then utilize the benefit it gives you.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

The question here, though, is what if PLD had a trait that effectively increased the enmity cap while the other jobs stayed at the old enmity cap.

This is one of the tricks that other MMO's use to help certain jobs tank.

But job dynamics in FFXI are much more fluid here than in other MMO's. We can change jobs, after all.

Besides, you may not like it when S-E tries to pick and choose which jobs are "tanks" and which aren't. How long was it before they pretty much admitted that NIN was a tank and WAR was not?