SoA or any future boxed collections

[Catmato]

SE, if you do release a collection with all of the expansions on physical disks, please try to make sure

• It is fully up to date so there isn't an 8+ hour update immediately
• All expansions can be installed at the same time instead of having to click each one individually
• It includes the Windows Vista+ version of POL

I think anyone who has had to install more than once would greatly appreciate this.

Edit: I'm aware they can't make a disk that is always current, but it would be nice to have something that's been updated sometime since release.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

None of which will ever happen.

[Catmato]

None of which will ever happen.

Is there a technical reason that these won't happen or did you just want to increase your post count?

Also, they should never release anything on a physical disc ever again, updated or not. In fact, I'd prefer the not up-to-date version, if only to discourage people from buying it.

I can't really understand why you'd want to have a 12+ hour download instead of a one hour install from a disc. This game is now over 11 gb and many people have limited bandwidth.

[Arcon]

I can't really understand why you'd want to have a 12+ hour download instead of a one hour install from a disc.

First, you mean a three hour download (with a slow connection, many people could do it in less than one) compared to a one hour long install (swapping several discs), which you have to keep stored and protected until the end of time and pray to god nothing happens to them or you'll end up one of those people who come on here and whine about not having an installation disc anymore and that no store ever sells them.

Second, even if they put an up-to-date version on a disc, it would be outdated again with the next update. Offering up-to-date content on a platform like Steam means you can always update it from there as soon as it's released (and you don't have to use SE's lame update servers and services). Full installation is a rare enough occurrence compared to the constant updating time you'd save by it, and that's only relevant if you have a shitty internet connection, otherwise you'd gain nothing at all from disc installations.

Last, I honestly doubt there even will be a new boxed collection out, ever. It's not profitable, and for good reason, because people don't wanna deal with that anymore.

Discs are evil and shouldn't exist. I can't really understand how anyone likes to torture themselves like that.

This game is now over 11 gb and many people have limited bandwidth.

That may be ignorance on my part. I wasn't aware (and I'm still not) that limited bandwidth plans still existed in this world. Unless you're playing on your mobile phone, that is, but I doubt it has a disc drive either.

[Afania]

First, you mean a three hour download (with a slow connection, many people could do it in less than one) compared to a one hour long install (swapping several discs), which you have to keep stored and protected until the end of time and pray to god nothing happens to them or you'll end up one of those people who come on here and whine about not having an installation disc anymore and that no store ever sells them.

It took me 3~5 hours just to download patches last time when I tried to install the game.


Also some ppl like physical discs, I'm one of them. I have a huge collections of console/PC game/handheld games with over 150titles, like how ppl collect old music CDs. I liked physical content when I pay for a game, including box art, CD, manual etc. Hey I still keep some of the NES games even!

If ppl doesn't like to deal with discs and stuff, you won't see those old classic PS1 or PS2 game sell for $100 or even $300 on ebay.

If you like steam download more, by all means do it, but just because you like digital download and hate disks, doesn't mean everyone is same as you. It'd be a nice option for ppl wanting to collect it. I have every single FF titles, and it'd be nice if I can collect the latest expansion of FFXI too.

[Arcon]

It took me 3~5 hours just to download patches last time when I tried to install the game.

That was SE's fault, and it's one of the things that would be remedied by shifting the uploading responsibilities to a third party with decent servers. It's simple math, 11GB with a 1MB/s downspeed connection will take you three hours. Considering some people have 100Mbit/s connections, the entire updated game could be downloaded in minutes if the server output is right.

Also some ppl like physical discs, I'm one of them. I have a huge collections of console/PC game/handheld games with over 150titles, like how ppl collect old music CDs. I liked physical content when I pay for a game, including box art, CD, manual etc. Hey I still keep some of the NES games even!

If ppl doesn't like to deal with discs and stuff, you won't see those old classic PS1 or PS2 game sell for $100 or even $300 on ebay.

Yes, you would, precisely because of what you said before. Some people simply like collecting them. That coupled with the fact that these discs aren't produced anymore, and those prices are perfectly understandable. It's not because discs are better or even good, but simply because some people like collecting.

Your fetish aside, objectively speaking discs are bad, there is only one upside and many downsides to them, the one advantage being that they're available offline or with a slow internet connection. The first point is irrelevant, since the game can't be played offline anyway, so the only reason to cling to it is for people with slow internet connections. And as I explained above, even with a slow connection it's just a couple of hours of downloading, and it's a one-time deal. And even those three hours you won't be sitting in front of it, waiting for the download to finish, but you'll spend them doing other things, or do it overnight, or while at work, etc. There's many ways around it, for the few people for whom it's actually relevant. That, on the other hand, does not apply to local installation. You will need to be present every now and again to swap discs, because the game doesn't fit on even two standard DVDs, so you always have to be ready to swap the discs when needed.

And it still won't be much faster from CD, because if it's even one update behind, chances are you'll have to download many older files again as well. It's not just new content being added, but if one thing in an older file is changed (such as an erroneous item description, or new NPCs are added to older zones), the entire DAT needs to be downloaded again. And the more updates pass, the more outdated content from the CD has to be replaced, so the required updating time will approach the full download time as time passes.

Like I said, if you like it, that's perfectly valid, but don't try to make it more than it is, because that's the only argument for it. It has no advantages to anyone and it would be very expensive for SE. Of course they could release it for a certain price on order as a special collection (they may actually do that), but that's as far as reason goes on this subject.

[Toadie-Odie]

Also some ppl like physical discs, I'm one of them. I have a huge collections of console/PC game/handheld games with over 150titles, like how ppl collect old music CDs. I liked physical content when I pay for a game, including box art, CD, manual etc. Hey I still keep some of the NES games even!

We still have a working Atari system and games to go with it, even though only my mother ever plays it now.

[Catmato]

First, you mean a three hour download

As you have stated, this does assume they've shifted distribution to a third party. As it currently stands though, downloading the entire game from SE's servers would take much, much longer than three hours.

Second, even if they put an up-to-date version on a disc, it would be outdated again with the next update.

That is true, but the initial update after installation could be cut from the current 3-5 hours (using Afaina's anecdotal time instead of my own) down to theoretically less than an hour. Even if they change 2000 files immediately, that's still significantly fewer than the 50k+ files that make up the entire game.

I wasn't aware (and I'm still not) that limited bandwidth plans still existed in this world.

If you know any players from Australia, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to tell you about their bandwidth limits.

Your fetish aside, objectively speaking discs are bad, there is only one upside and many downsides to them

Desiring to own a physical copy of they game one purchases shouldn't be so rudely depreciated to a term such as "fetish". I prefer not to rely on a third party, with their own questionable licensing and agreements, to obtain the game that I've already purchased from SE. It's inane that you'd be willing to discard your, and all other players', ownership rights just to satisfy your digital distribution "fetish".

[Arcon]

As you have stated, this does assume they've shifted distribution to a third party.

That's what my argument was about. I was comparing an updated version of the game on physical media vs. digitally distributed. Of course it sucks as it is now, but it wouldn't be much better on discs, because most people wouldn't buy it again just for the shorter installation time, whereas on Steam it would immediately become available for everyone who already has it.

That is true, but the initial update after installation could be cut from the current 3-5 hours (using Afaina's anecdotal time instead of my own) down to theoretically less than an hour. Even if they change 2000 files immediately, that's still significantly fewer than the 50k+ files that make up the entire game.

Fewer yes, noticeable, also. And they won't bring out a new boxed collection every year.

If you know any players from Australia, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to tell you about their bandwidth limits.

They did, but that was years ago. I figured it got better by now, and looking through random offers I found after a 2min Google search I was right.

Desiring to own a physical copy of they game one purchases shouldn't be so rudely depreciated to a term such as "fetish". I prefer not to rely on a third party, with their own questionable licensing and agreements, to obtain the game that I've already purchased from SE. It's inane that you'd be willing to discard your, and all other players', ownership rights just to satisfy your digital distribution "fetish".

It's not rude or depreciating, it's what it is, a desire for something with no obvious advantages for the sake of satisfying a personal obsession (in this case, collection). Which is also why mine isn't a fetish, because I don't want it just for the sake of it, I want it for practical reasons.

You do not own FFXI. Not now, not on Steam, not anywhere. You own copies of POL and licenses to some of its content. You pay for licensing, and that's something Steam can't take away. Even if your Steam account does get banned, you can still play the game (even with the same installation). It's true that you will have lost your copy of the game (one you can get for free from various sources), but I don't know why you think that's an issue. Right now SE is holding your account hostage. Do you trust them with it? Personally I'd trust Valve more, even if they have almost no effect on it, but I guess that's where your personal preference and paranoia comes in.

Unless you're doing something with your Steam account that you shouldn't be doing, that will never become an issue. It's much more likely to lose or damage your physical discs than to have anything happen to them on there (as evidenced by the several threads about damaged/lost/missing discs on here and various other FFXI forums already). For that matter, statistically it's also much more likely that SE will ban you for botting than having your Steam account suspended. And if you're still not convinced, just get a separate Steam account for FFXI. Since playing FFXI doesn't register as activity on Steam (it doesn't go through Steam at all), they won't even know your account is active at all.

Having an updated version of the game available on a decent online distribution platform is a significant advantage for speed and convenience, losing the rights to your games is paranoia, as it does not and will never affect you in any way (again, not counting your own shady doings). On the other hand a new boxed collection would do nothing for many people, because they don't wanna rebuy a collection just for a quicker installation, and for the ones who do, they won't notice much of a difference regardless, because of the reasons stated above. A slightly faster installation process, at first. That's it.

Edit:

Windows® PC (Digital Download), Only?

Websites with automatically starting sound should get banned from the internet and the people responsible fired and blacklisted from whatever job they were doing.

[bungiefanNA]

Discs are evil and shouldn't exist. I can't really understand how anyone likes to torture themselves like that.



That may be ignorance on my part. I wasn't aware (and I'm still not) that limited bandwidth plans still existed in this world. Unless you're playing on your mobile phone, that is, but I doubt it has a disc drive either.

Many Canadian ISPs limit monthly bandwidth usage to 2 GB per month, with overage fees. Most of Alaska doesn't have unlimited usage internet either, and the ISP in the largest city has a 2 GB/month usage plan with $5 per GB over. It only goes down to $1/GB over if you spend about $150 a month on a 22 Mbps connection with a 200 GB/month limit, which you can hit in 22 hours of use. 1 Mbps is the most common speed available here, and that takes me usually 10 hours to patch on a fresh install.

Monthly usage limits are also standard in Europe.

Discs avoid the biggest part of the download of a fresh install, the 10+ GB of data to download. Patching is usually just about 1 GB. Also, discs let you reinstall when you may not have a stable connection, without having to wait a long time for the download to finish so you can start the patch. Storing a disc in ISO file format to quickly reinstall with Daemon-Tools is also a plus.

Heck, less than a year ago in the US, Comcast finally started ignoring their 250 GB/month usage limit, and are now considering reinstating it at 300-600 GB/month. (FYI I use about 300 GB/month on my unlimited 1 Mbps, but that's not available all over my city, much less my state) We are having more and more devices connect to the internet to update themselves (TVs, game consoles, computers, BluRay players, smart printers) and the software they run, and so we are using more bandwidth. Also, services like CrunchyRoll and NetFlix use a lot of bandwidth, especially if you use them as a replacement for broadcast and cable TV, and Skype/Google Voice to replace a land phone.

As far as minimizing reinstall though, you can copy your FFXI folder to an external hard drive, and then when you reinstall from disc, just install the core game and copy the backed up folder over it. You'll have all the expansions, your local data, and all the patches up to when you backed up your game folder. When I get a new friend into the game, I give them an install disc and loan them my external hard drive with my patches applied. They install and copy the folder over and have the game up and running in under an hour. BlueGartr also maintains a Zipped patch thread with much faster download speeds than the SE servers, and you can store the patch files on a flash drive.